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28 Apr 2016, 17:01 (Ref:3636948) | #726 | ||
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Once again, all of these problems have been solved before. Why are we now insisting they are problems again? Are we going to sit and discuss what shape wheels should be? Other series are using round ones, so F1 will have to invent another shape. I vote for hexagon. |
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28 Apr 2016, 17:13 (Ref:3636950) | #727 | |||
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28 Apr 2016, 17:29 (Ref:3636951) | #728 | ||
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but surely a fully closed canopy (jet fighter styles) plus the safety cell means the timeliness of extraction becomes less of an issue as the driver is protected within.
rather, isnt the necessity for quick extraction a bigger issue now as their is currently a total lack of protection from fire for example? anyways im just happy they are moving towards the goal of better protection. for me what is gained in safety far outweighs the need to maintain a sense of visual aesthetic. |
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28 Apr 2016, 18:09 (Ref:3636961) | #729 | ||
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In reality, I believe there have been more risk due to cockpit intrusion than something like fire. Intrusions happen instantaneously and generally can only be prevented by proactive measures, while some of the other things people commonly post here as attempts to shoot down cockpit protection can be addressed by both proactive and reactive measures. For example, fire can use proactive measures such as flame retardant material, onboard fire suppression (or even using the canopy to separate the driver from the fire!) and reactive measure such as trackside fire fighting (marshals and emergency teams). Richard |
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28 Apr 2016, 18:38 (Ref:3636962) | #730 | |||
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28 Apr 2016, 19:02 (Ref:3636970) | #731 | |||
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i would think the risk of taking extra time is more than offset by the extra amount of protection. |
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28 Apr 2016, 22:50 (Ref:3636978) | #732 | ||
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That RedBull device is hideous though I'm concious of the fact that it's a bolt on piece, developed for a future car I'm sure the lower edge would be smoothed into the lines of the car.
The mere fact that RedBull are using the word Aero in the name of it, I fear speaks more for what it's intended to do, and that is reduce wind buffet on the driver's head and deflect air around the cockpit area...the fact that it would prevent cockpit intrusion from some angles is an excuse to try it out in race (read as one lap) conditions. I personally still advocate a full blister cockpit canopy, with squib charges running through it that when only arm under certain conditions and then can only be set off by a positive action from either within the cockpit, or by a marshal outside. The canopy shatters leaving the cockpit opening unobstructed for safe egress. What the RedBull device does show for a full canopy, just how integral in the design it would have to be, with the front of the canopy starting much further forward on the car reducing he angle of screen but still providing clearance above the helmet. It would probably result in a new design of airbox (and roll hoop) given the way air would pass over the canopy surface. Last edited by ScotsBrutesFan; 28 Apr 2016 at 23:30. Reason: replaced much "further down" with "further forward" |
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28 Apr 2016, 23:16 (Ref:3636979) | #733 | |||
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28 Apr 2016, 23:59 (Ref:3636982) | #734 | ||||
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28 Apr 2016, 23:59 (Ref:3636983) | #735 | ||
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Still believe that a pneumatic cylinder like the on board air jacks, but under the canopy and facing up could be used to force the canopy off the car and push the car away from an object trapping the driver. |
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29 Apr 2016, 00:28 (Ref:3636987) | #736 | |
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I am quite uncomfortable going here, but it should be noted that Jules was not killed outright, so it would seem that even a relatively small change may have saved his life.
If he was so severely injured by the sudden deceleration against the wall then a canopy would not work, however if the injury was as a result of a glancing blow against his helmet from the rear of the tractor, then a canopy may well have given the margin necessary to save his life. I don't know which situation is correct, there are a lot of vested interests in pursuing the line that nothing would have saved Jules though. If anyone has seen any good analysis of the accident and the causes of Jules' injuries I for one would like to hear about it. |
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29 Apr 2016, 01:24 (Ref:3637000) | #737 | |||
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As Akrapovic says, this isn't reinventing the wheel. |
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29 Apr 2016, 01:24 (Ref:3637001) | #738 | ||
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I was thinking just an inch or 2 further towards the front of the car, not something that starts at the suspension struts.
The current car design has a clear zone for the drivers as an imaginary line from the top of the role hoop to a point on the crash structure the drivers helmet can't protrude above. Both this and the Halo are being bolted onto that design. A full integration of any design, halo, screen or full canopy, would probably require or result in a change to this rule, meaning that perhaps the drivers could ride a little higher, or sit more upright in the cars again, safely ensconced within the canopy. |
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29 Apr 2016, 06:33 (Ref:3637034) | #739 | ||
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When was the last time that a car caught fire in a crash? Seriously, I cannot remember and I have been watching since the early 90s. Yes, there were fires, mostly in the pits with extinguishers close by or by engine failure without crash.
I can remember several cockpit intrusions and close calls, though. This should be considered when debating different risks: probabilities of incident and consequences of incidents. |
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29 Apr 2016, 07:05 (Ref:3637037) | #740 | |||
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
29 Apr 2016, 07:14 (Ref:3637039) | #741 | |||
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Having said that... unless the car is on fire, there is no reason to egress with any sort of expediency. And even if it is on fire, how often is it a rolling ball of fire? Almost never. But, to answer your question that I often teach my students.. "If you want the patient to live, they have to not get killed in the first place" We have to find a way to prevent the injury from ever occurring. |
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
29 Apr 2016, 12:33 (Ref:3637090) | #742 | ||
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Indeed it is, hence the various designs and devices that have been proposed. However, once there has been an accident, the most important thing is to get the driver out of the car quickly and safely so they can be assessed.
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29 Apr 2016, 12:46 (Ref:3637093) | #743 | |||
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29 Apr 2016, 13:08 (Ref:3637096) | #744 | ||
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RBR debuted their aeroscreen today during first practice.
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124021 |
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29 Apr 2016, 14:07 (Ref:3637112) | #745 | |
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Video of tire and ballistic test of the RBR screen...
http://www.redbullracing.com/article/aeroscreen-time Richard |
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29 Apr 2016, 14:15 (Ref:3637115) | #746 | |||
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With the ballistics test, I'd like to have seen how the aeroscreen would have dealt with a smaller, sharper object like a metal pole. |
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29 Apr 2016, 15:21 (Ref:3637128) | #747 | ||
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That helmet also is sitting much higher than it does when the driver is actually in the car.
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29 Apr 2016, 15:36 (Ref:3637129) | #748 | ||
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Richard |
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29 Apr 2016, 15:38 (Ref:3637130) | #749 | ||
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psot FP2 there was an interview with DR where he was asked if the top of the screen would interfere with his ability to see the lights on the start grid.
while he didnt think it would be an issue he admitted that wasnt something he had tried to do. legitimate question from the reporter or just looking for problems? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTayiI0bBag |
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29 Apr 2016, 16:02 (Ref:3637134) | #750 | |
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i think it's a legitimate question - this is f1, it's riddled with comedy design/reality interface failure anecdotes
you've got to imagine it's going to get in the way for *someone* on the grid at least, i wonder if we'll end up seeing leds fitted to the inside of them to solve that one. |
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