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Old 12 Apr 2012, 10:26 (Ref:3057731)   #1
Peter Mallett
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Hamilton 5 Place Penalty?

I thought they could change gearboxes etc. on or befor Friday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...ox-change.html
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 11:45 (Ref:3057765)   #2
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andy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridandy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sounds a bit harsh to me , but then the rules of F1 totally confuse me these days ! From the telegraph article it sounds as though they know the box has a problem but are gonna leave it in during practice and then change for quali .
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 12:10 (Ref:3057778)   #3
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Gearbox has got to last 4 races, so regardless of what happens on a Friday, that box from the last race has got to start its third race on Sunday, and if it's damaged in some way, what's the point?

Didn't Kimi have to take a 5 place grid penalty for a gearbox problem?

Rules is rules.
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 12:20 (Ref:3057782)   #4
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andy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridandy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Gearbox has got to last 4 races, so regardless of what happens on a Friday, that box from the last race has got to start its third race on Sunday, and if it's damaged in some way, what's the point?

Didn't Kimi have to take a 5 place grid penalty for a gearbox problem?

Rules is rules.
Yes Kimi did take a penalty, and thanks for that post , i thought the teams had a quota of gearbox's and took a penalty if they went over that quota , I remember being confused when Kimi got the penalty
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 12:24 (Ref:3057785)   #5
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pauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridpauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm a little confused - I thought there was both an allocation for the season and a penalty if you had to change after Friday (which I thought is what Kimi was hit with) - same rules as with engines. Am I totally wrong?
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 12:32 (Ref:3057789)   #6
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A gearbox must last 5 consecutive races, changes out of that sequence will result in a penalty.

In Hamilton's case they are having to change the gearbox after only 2 consecutive races hence the penalty.

Engines have a limit per season, there is no consecutive rule, simply that if they have that number but can chop and change across the season, so Australia's engine could race twice more over the season and probably make at least one other Friday appearance as well.
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 12:37 (Ref:3057790)   #7
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Gearbox has to last five races, not four, as I stated earlier.

FIA sporting reg 28.6

a) Each driver may use no more than one gearbox for five consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement gearbox he will drop five places on the starting grid at that Event and an additional five places each time a further gearbox is used.
Any replacement gearbox must be fitted with the same gear ratios that were declared under d) below and will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question. Any change to the gear ratios declared under d) below will incur a further five grid place penalty. In either case a new five race sequence may start at the following Event. Unless the driver fails to finish the race (or is unable to start the race for reasons other than a penalty imposed by the stewards) the gearbox fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it for the remainder of the five race sequence. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first, second, third or fourth of the five Events for reasons which the technical delegate accepts as being beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the following Event with a different gearbox without a penalty being incurred.
A gearbox will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 14:13 (Ref:3057851)   #8
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pauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridpauln should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks chaps - I'd missed the "consecutive" bit somewhere along the way.

Still think it's a little odd that they don't have the same rules for both gearbox and engine, but since when did F1 do things sensibly?
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 15:17 (Ref:3057884)   #9
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No worries, Lewis will go on a charge...
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Old 12 Apr 2012, 15:39 (Ref:3057893)   #10
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A penalty in China should not present Hamilton with too much difficulty, Monaco even with DRS now that would be a different matter altogether.
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 00:55 (Ref:3058130)   #11
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I don't understand why they haven't switched the gearboxes to the engine method either. It is vastly superior giving an allocation rather than mandating consecutive appearances.

Has there ever been any word as to why they haven't harmonised this?
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 01:25 (Ref:3058138)   #12
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Gearbox has to last 5 races, if not 5 places penalty next race...
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 02:59 (Ref:3058155)   #13
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A penalty in China should not present Hamilton with too much difficulty, Monaco even with DRS now that would be a different matter altogether.
Less of a penalty than some cucumber driving into you, but undeserved nevertheless.
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 15:39 (Ref:3058470)   #14
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Less of a penalty than some cucumber driving into you, but undeserved nevertheless.
Other teams will have made gearboxes that can comfortably last 5 races. So you may choose to use a gearbox that's perhaps a bit lighter, and therefore adds some speed to the car, but also is a bit less reliable because of that.

It's a 'team' sport.
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 16:33 (Ref:3058485)   #15
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Wims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridWims should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I dont see how it could possibly be unfair or undeserved when all the other cars in the field are following the same rule and are subject to the same penalties if they break them. This particular rule is very black/white and straight forward to understand
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 20:09 (Ref:3058565)   #16
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Absolutely.
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 21:47 (Ref:3058626)   #17
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Raspberry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No doubt it's all cleverly boxed off in the Regs, but being an armchairist, my only query would be on safety issues - previously (& possibly now?), there have been Regs to allow components to be changed if their use could be considered dangerous, and a gearbox with a failing bearing could just about sometimes occasionally be a bit on the dangerous side of safe.

Being an old git, stuff like this makes me think back to Colin Chapman making components that lasted 1/2 a lap longer than Race distance (if the driver was lucky)...and also to Jim Clark, who had to manage without the assistance of chemical biological physicists telling him his gearbag was about to go bang.
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Old 13 Apr 2012, 23:03 (Ref:3058658)   #18
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It would be perfectly possible for an F1 team to fit a gearbox to the car that would last all season. I'm not absolutely sure how much the gearbox of a Mercedes tractor unit weighs, but they are often semi-automatic, and you could probably find the correct ratios in there somewhere.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 11:10 (Ref:3058857)   #19
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F1 regulations. So, so awful. Thought up by actual retards.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 11:30 (Ref:3058870)   #20
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F1 regulations. So, so awful. Thought up by actual retards.
Why so angry?

Yes, I do believe that the teams, including McLaren, did have a big hand in coming up with those regulations. It was thought that reliability was more important than performance (can't really argue with that when it comes to gearboxes), and that throwing in a new gearbox every time the car was rolled back into the garage was taking the 'conspicuous consumption' thing a bit too far.

Likewise the engines. The engineers are now having to think about how they can make an engine more reliable, rather than when they just threw in another 'grenade' when the gearbox got changed.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 11:44 (Ref:3058879)   #21
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And the sport is worse for it.

Yes, I am angry. Absolutely livid. Because I hate grid penalties, they are an absolute joke. I have been consistent on this very point for years and it is nothing to do with the fact it is a McLaren involved. It is an absolute nonsense and an inherently unfair rule as well because, whilst a penalty at China is not totally fatal, the same thing at Monaco would write an entire weekend off for something that may have occurred because of something beyond anybodies control.

But still, at least all this penny pinching is helping teams like HRT and Marussia close the gap on the top teams at an inexorable rate.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 11:48 (Ref:3058883)   #22
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All that McLaren need do is make a more reliable gearbox, which is completely within their control. Simples.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 11:52 (Ref:3058888)   #23
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Gearboxes, or indeed any component, do not always break because of a design fault.
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 14:34 (Ref:3058955)   #24
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That's not so simples but there you go...
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Old 14 Apr 2012, 15:40 (Ref:3058986)   #25
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F1 regulations. So, so awful. Thought up by actual retards.
Have to agree with that. Anyway, I'm sure Lewis will make up for it in the race.
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