[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[chernaudi]

IMO, either the ACO are stacking the deck in favor of Toyota (which IMO does no one any good right now) or Toyota weren't sandbagging at the Prologue and their pace within prescribed EOT is real.

Either way, if things look messed up at Spa, the ACO will probably change things again going into and out of LM.

[TF110]

Looks like the ACO know something we don't, because the non-hybrid cars have a lower fuel flow for Spa now http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...t-adjustments/.

I think people are forgetting that the TS050 is well-known to the team, so they're going to be getting the most out of their car of these teams. The others don't have cars they've been running for a whole season. Even the Kolles has brand new components to it and it only ran 3 races last year. That's why I brought up the lap times from the prologue. There's more to come from the private team's cars as they learn the car. On top of that they aren't limited to a set body kit like Toyota is. They can add to it and change things up, Toyota are stuck with what they have.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

Looks like the ACO know something we don't, because the non-hybrid cars have a lower fuel flow for Spa now http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/l...t-adjustments/.

These performance levels were predicted by one of our very own Ten Tenths members.

http://theracingline.net/2018/race-c...1-whats-story/

https://drracing.wordpress.com/2018/...ats-the-story/

Turns out, Andrea was right...again.

[chernaudi]

I hope that the changes won't harm the ability for private teams to race against Toyota. It does though seem to be aimed at taking a second or so off the pace of the private cars around a normal sized track.

[XtC24]

Energy per lap - 125(without boost) vs 210 KJ
Fuel flow 80 vs 110 kg/h
Petrol/stint - 35.1 vs 47.1 (was 54)


We have ca. 500-550 hp vs ca. 650-700 hp of continous power into 878/833 kgs of weight

I think when Toyota(Vasselon) said it is quite a challenge he was not only PRing.
Ok, so they have hybrid boost but still it can be tough ask when you have the boost for limited time + lower top speed so when you want to overtake and the stake is high + there is a long straight on some well known circuit you can have quite a big problem.
In Le Mans nonhybrids will be probably more competitive then anywhere else so I think that Toyota can ask for some break as some of the other P1s are not even close to their full potential.

You can say what you want but Toyota are spending a whole lot more than the others so it is not to much if you do not want to be slower.

Toyota will "deliver" at LM anyway and give them big chance so they should just shut up.
If there was Porsche instead of Toyota left in WEC, there would be not 8 but maybe 2,3 privateers' cars, let's face it.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by XtC24

Energy per lap - 125(without boost) vs 210 KJ
Fuel flow 80 vs 110 kg/h
Petrol/stint - 35.1 vs 47.1 (was 54)


We have ca. 500-550 hp vs ca. 650-700 hp of continous power into 878/833 kgs of weight

I think when Toyota(Vasselon) said it is quite a challenge he was not only PRing.
Ok, so they have hybrid boost but still it can be tough ask when you have the boost for limited time + lower top speed so when you want to overtake and the stake is high + there is a long straight on some well known circuit you can have quite a big problem.
In Le Mans nonhybrids will be probably more competitive then anywhere else so I think that Toyota can ask for some break as some of the other P1s are not even close to their full potential.

You can say what you want but Toyota are spending a whole lot more than the others so it is not to much if you do not want to be slower.

Toyota will "deliver" at LM anyway and give them big chance so they should just shut up.
If there was Porsche instead of Toyota left in WEC, there would be not 8 but maybe 2,3 privateers' cars, let's face it.

Toyota shouldn't shut up because they've been in the WEC since it's inception so they should have a say. Not that they should always get their way, but the words spoken weren't just to give them a better hand. They're using the same car as last year so there's already one advantage to the private teams. They had their fuel allocation chopped off big time so that's another. The new cars/teams can always improve their car, and even if they stay with the same package, like you said they are nowhere near their real potential yet. That's yet one more advantage those teams have. It's going to be interesting to see but like I said a while back, these new cars are going to be fast, real fast.

[XtC24]

I meant the privateers should shut up.

I hope also rest of the post gives some reasons why.

[Steve McQ]

How does the new EoT compare with the one used last year at Le Mans ? John Dagys only gives a % comparison which doesn't mean that much, and I don't know how to find former "bulletins".

[TF110]

Originally Posted by XtC24

I meant the privateers should shut up.

I hope also rest of the post gives some reasons why.

My mistake. I think both them need to be heard, but let the actual data do most of the talking

[chernaudi]

Hopefully this will be spot on, unless Toyota were sandbagging. I don't think that both sides would be above playing political games right now if it suited them.

Of course, to us outsiders, that's why things look really screwy when TMG were allowed 8 hours of running outside of EOT. Namely, how far off the prescribed mark were they during that period to gain 4-6 seconds off what they ran within EOT limits?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Of course, to us outsiders, that's why things look really screwy when TMG were allowed 8 hours of running outside of EOT. Namely, how far off the prescribed mark were they during that period to gain 4-6 seconds off what they ran within EOT limits?

Porsche gained 12 seconds around a similar time length of lap at Spa with the 919 Evo, and they said they'd increased the maximum power output by about 250bhp. Wouldn't be surprised if Toyota did something very similar with their power unit (and the rest of the difference from 4 to 12 seconds is accounted for by tires, weight saving and insane aero).

[TF110]

I'm sure Toyota had a good amount of time to be had by doing a qualifying run, but not 5 seconds on a lap at Paul Ricard. Imo, that came from the hybrid being let loose without the 'mj per lap' restriction. So they ran all the boost they wanted to because it was to test their new cooling. But I don't think 1:38's and 1:39's are as fast as they could go within the rules. If they ran a qualifying lap, I would guess a 1:36 is a good time.

Onto Spa, last year they set a lmp1 lap record with the LM kit in qualifyig with a 1:53.658. Let's see if the private teams can touch the 1:53's in qualifying like Porsche and Toyota both did.

[GasperG]

IMO, it's the right direction, leave the power (fuel flow) of privateers where it is and cut them some fuel allocation per lap, this way you minimise the potential accidents where hybrids have to coast and privateers would be still on full power.

On a second thought, the right direction would be to give Toyota more fuel per lap, so they wouldn't have to coast, but that is another story.

[Deleted]

Negative impacts in comparison to Spa 2017 are much greater for the non-hybrids

2017 https://www.fia.com/file/56510/download?token=jo7PwEKE
2018 https://www.fia.com/file/67510/download?token=P8BfbyFW

NON-HYBRID
Weight: No change
Petrol Energy: -10,2 mj/lap
Petrol Flow: -5 kg/h
Petrol Per Stint: -6,1 kg
Fuel Restrictor: -5,70 mm

HYBRID:
Weight: No change
Petrol Energy: No change
Petrol Flow: -0,2 kg/h
Petrol Per Stint: -9 kg
Fuel Restrictor: -2,05 mm

[Steve McQ]

OK so the privateers are to be "slower" than last year, on paper at least. Meanwhile, the Toyota stays the same. And they do that after a test where you don't know who tested what in terms of tires, fuel filling, engine modes etc...

Simulations made on last year's EoT gave the privateers a 1'55 per lap at Spa, Toyota was already at least 1.5" faster. Now that the privateers are slower over the course of a stint, what can you expect other than a Toyota lonely show at the front ?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

OK so the privateers are to be "slower" than last year, on paper at least. Meanwhile, the Toyota stays the same. And they do that after a test where you don't know who tested what in terms of tires, fuel filling, engine modes etc...

Simulations made on last year's EoT gave the privateers a 1'55 per lap at Spa, Toyota was already at least 1.5" faster. Now that the privateers are slower over the course of a stint, what can you expect other than a Toyota lonely show at the front ?

It'll almost certainly be a 'boring' 1-2 cruise control for TMG at Spa, and most people will end up moaning about it, perhaps even Alonso fans... even if he wins it. It might spark a headline or two for the general media with "ALONSO WINS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 5 YEARS WITH TOYOTA ENDURANCE RACER" but then it will get shot in the head with "... AGAINST NO SERIOUS COMPETITION" or whatever alike tabloid nonsense.

The somewhat saving grace will be the inter-nonhybrid order, and their reliability, but obviously the big public isn't going to be particularly interested in that.

For LM however... even if/when there are further EoT changes and if Toyota storms to the pole by 5 seconds, all bets are off for the race given Toyota's awful history. That will be one of the most unpredictable races for the last decade, I reckon.

[Deleted]

https://www.fiawec.com/assets/fileup...5a6530fad8.pdf

The race will end 1 hour earlier in the evening than in the past, so less sunset running.

What's the "Open Running Session" that's marked both for WEC and Carrera Cup, Friday 5.30-8 PM?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What's the "Open Running Session" that's marked both for WEC and Carrera Cup, Friday 5.30-8 PM?

Jogging around the track?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

Jogging around the track?

I wonder how the runner participants are performance balanced, and more importantly whether sandbags go to fanny packs or backpacks?

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Chiana

For LM however... That will be one of the most unpredictable races for the last decade, I reckon.

I hope so. It will be interesting to see if Toyota flounce if they don't win LM in 2018, not even bothering to run in 2019...

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Haven't people been saying that since 2013?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

I hope so. It will be interesting to see if Toyota flounce if they don't win LM in 2018, not even bothering to run in 2019...

If they win LM, they will continue in P1
Possible reasons: A, B, D, G, J, K, L

If they win LM, they will ditch P1
Possible reasons: C, F, M

If they lose LM, they will continue in P1
Possible reasons: A, B, E, G, H, I, J, K, L

If they lose LM, they will ditch P1
Possible reasons: C, I, M, N

A) Toyota is actively involved in the 2020/21 regulation making
B) The original reported/rumored plan for Toyota was to run Spa/LM/Fuji only. Whether that's true or not, the ACO has made the 'must run full season' for factory team to be eligible for Le Mans entry. So regardless of what happens in 2018, Toyota is respecting that rule because they want to enter Le Mans 2019 and/or beyond
C) Toyota is bluffing and intends to ditch P1 after Le Mans 2018 regardless of what happens there (they know they can get around of ACO's "threats")
D) Toyota is only willing to respect the said commitment if they happen to win in 2018 (they know they can get around of ACO's 'threats')
E) Toyota is only willing to respect the said commitment if they don't happen to win in 2018 (they know they can get around of ACO's 'threats')
F) Toyota is only interested in winning Le Mans once
G) Toyota wants to win Le Mans more than once (to top Mazda?) without taking a break from participation
H) Toyota will never stop until they at least win Le Mans
I) Toyota is embarrassed to have lost to the privateers
J) Alonso's confirmed seat for beyond Le Mans, can't disappoint him and PR
K) Anthony Davidson racing in LMP2 only after Le Mans (cannot do LMP1 because of direct conlict with Toyota presence), and other driver conflicts
L) Toyota representatives at Sebring and past talks of 'demo runs' there
M) Mercedes 1999 like disaster or some other bizarre incident (on track or off) that creates too much bad PR for the brand
N) Boycott or lobbying towards to ACO/FIA for reasons of X

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It'll almost certainly be a 'boring' 1-2 cruise control for TMG at Spa, and most people will end up moaning about it, perhaps even Alonso fans... even if he wins it. It might spark a headline or two for the general media with "ALONSO WINS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 5 YEARS WITH TOYOTA ENDURANCE RACER" but then it will get shot in the head with "... AGAINST NO SERIOUS COMPETITION" or whatever alike tabloid nonsense.

The somewhat saving grace will be the inter-nonhybrid order, and their reliability, but obviously the big public isn't going to be particularly interested in that.

For LM however... even if/when there are further EoT changes and if Toyota storms to the pole by 5 seconds, all bets are off for the race given Toyota's awful history. That will be one of the most unpredictable races for the last decade, I reckon.

I think you're wrong. Lopez says that at Aragon the private teams testing alongside them were faster. We had reports that the SMP was doing 1:17's there and the Kolles was doing 1:18's, which was the pace Toyota was doing. If that's the case then you need to factor that the private teams are slower than what they ultimately could be because they have yet to even get on top of their cars. I'm sure they've learned a lot from the prologue. Especially a team like Rebellion.

[Mike E]

The pace may be similar but the stint lengths different. Makes Toyota hybrid look efficient if they run a lap longer, and those laps add up. Maybe.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Mike E

The pace may be similar but the stint lengths different. Makes Toyota hybrid look efficient if they run a lap longer, and those laps add up. Maybe.

Possibly 2 laps at Spa if it's supposed to be 1 lap for Le Mans. I wonder if the ACO will let that stand or try to close it up.