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23 Apr 2006, 21:18 (Ref:1593162)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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McLaren's strategy (merged)
Isn't it about time they gave a serious rethink to their pit stop stratergy?
Imo, at a place like Imola their "qualifying 3 or 4 row's back on a heavy fuel load" was never going to work. I know hindsight is a wonderful tool, but due to their insistance on adopting this stratergy they qualified behind slower cars and by the time the leaders stopped they were roughly the time it takes to make a pit stop behind. Given Michael (and Massa'a) graining problems, they narrowed the gap near the end of the race, with JPM a mere 13 seconds behind (i.e he made up roughly 7 - 10 seconds when the fuel levels equalled out). Surely, had they gone for a better grid position, it would have put them in a better position to win the race. Obviously, i understand the theory of their thinking, but they have to have everything fall their way, which, when they get squeezed out at the first corner, mean's they are on the back foot straight away. Thoughts? |
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man! 
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23 Apr 2006, 21:24 (Ref:1593170)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,006
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McLaren and strategy don't mix. The idea of a heavy fuel load on Imola is insane. Their strategists suck.
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23 Apr 2006, 21:25 (Ref:1593171)
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,349
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It does seem like McLaren enjoy putting a handicap on themselves at every race with the insistence of a heavy fuel load. Sometimes it pays off but quite often it just leaves them with extra work to do on Sunday.
I'm not going to pretend I know better than the guys McLaren pay big bucks to decide these things, but it does look like they're using the fuel excuse as a smokescreen for other things sometimes. |
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23 Apr 2006, 21:26 (Ref:1593174)
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#4 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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I nearly started an identical thread! But, thinking about it, today they weren't all that heavier than everyone else and I don't think fuel was the reason for their grid slots.
Having said that, they do tend to persist with the heavy fuel loads.....and I think this is fine, if you have a car advantage as they did with the MP4-20. But when you have a car that is not out ahead, you need to get it up the grid and "in the mix" IMO.....and I can't understand why McLaren don't try to do this. What will they lose by qualifying a little lighter? They won't do any worse that's for sure! If the rumours are right, McLaren are out desperately trying to sign Pat Symonds. He can't come soon enough... |
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23 Apr 2006, 21:28 (Ref:1593177)
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#5 | |||
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14th
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,467
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Quote:
 I jest, one mistake - he does seem decent at organising a team.I hadn't heard that. Crickey. He seems at home at Renault. |
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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23 Apr 2006, 21:30 (Ref:1593178)
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#6 | ||
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Forum Host
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Yes infact Mac were lighter than the Renaults today so they clearly went for the grid slot.
I think it was a combination of lack of speed and poor driving that cost them grid positions yesterday. |
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__________________
A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off."
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23 Apr 2006, 21:36 (Ref:1593187)
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#7 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,006
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Quote:
 I was about to start that thread after quali, but then I thought, ok let's see if that was the problem. Apparently it was not. 
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23 Apr 2006, 21:39 (Ref:1593189)
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#8 | |||
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Forum Host
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
I always thought it would be a logical move for Symonds to follow his star driver to Mclaren. Especially if Renault fail to sign an adequete replacement for ALonso |
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__________________
A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off."
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23 Apr 2006, 21:40 (Ref:1593191)
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#9 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Quote:
Of the top 8, Alfonso went the longest, but the fact that he has the best car by miles may have allowed for this (his driving notwithstanding of course) Looking at the top 8 qualifiers in order ... Michael, Jenson, Rubens, Massa, Alfonso, Rafe, JPM, Kimi and they pitted in this order ... Jenson (Lap 14) Rubens (15) Rafe (16) Massa (19) Michael (20) Kimi (22) JPM (23) Alfonso (25) Ok, they didn't go that heavy in comparison, but with the exception of Alfonso, they went heaviest of the rest of the top 8. My point is, take a bit of fuel out, get infront of some of the other guys, lessen the risk of getting caught up in a first corner incident, or being "squeezed out" as both were today and greaten the chance of a win? |
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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23 Apr 2006, 21:41 (Ref:1593194)
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#10 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Quote:
Back on topic ....
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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23 Apr 2006, 22:01 (Ref:1593220)
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#11 | |||
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Forum Host
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
I think if they would have overall pace strategies wouldnt matter... i remember last year Kimi used to be on pole AND be the last one to pit at times... What Mclaren need is anothe half second from somewhere... |
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__________________
A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off."
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23 Apr 2006, 22:05 (Ref:1593224)
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#12 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Quote:
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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23 Apr 2006, 22:44 (Ref:1593256)
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#13 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 394
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Quote:
I dont think Symonds and Dennis are exactly buddy/buddy. Symonds more than once mentioned how Renault beats Mclaren with a fraction of what Dennis is spending. With a huge grin. So i think he has a lot of satisfaction right now. |
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__________________
Some people wear Superman pajamas. Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas.
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23 Apr 2006, 23:44 (Ref:1593291)
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#14 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 312
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Quote:
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2 May 2006, 12:55 (Ref:1599343)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,164
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McLaren's heavy fuel strategy - is it working?
Just a having a think about McLaren's heavy fuel load strategy in the 2006 season, is it working?
So far we have seen the McLaren duo being held up and involved in accidents due to being further down the grid than the other big 3 teams. Do you think McLaren should run a "more conventional" fuel load, and be mixing it with Ferrari, Honda and Renault head to head? Discuss! |
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2 May 2006, 13:12 (Ref:1599357)
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#16 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 263
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I'd say it probably hasn't, so on that basis I certainly think at the very least they should try carrying less fuel initially - the results might be pleasing enough for them to justify continuing to do it.
As you said, their cars do appear to have been to be caught up in incidents close to the middle of the pack, so being more up the front at the start would decrease the chance of that happening. I think Brundle has mentioned this - describing McLaren as using the 'optimal' race strategy, and has been sceptical about its effectiveness. I tend to agree, seeing as they don't appear to have the clear pace advantage over all the other teams they enjoyed last year. As a result they're prone to being stuck behind cars that slow them down, but unlike last year, they haven't been as able to put in a series of blistering lap times to leapfrog the cars during the pitstops. And this being their home race, I'm sure that would give them added incentive to PR it up and challenge for the pole - and if that does happen, I have a hunch Montoya might be the guinea pig with less fuel. Last edited by Halsey; 2 May 2006 at 13:14. |
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2 May 2006, 14:08 (Ref:1599387)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,744
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I think you have to have an overwelming performance advantage for the heavy fuel stratagy to work. I don't think they have that right now. For a heavy stratagy to work they must be able to run very fast laps at the front to gain time. They aren't doing that, they're running in 3rd or 4th in the period between when their competitors have stopped and when they stop.
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__________________
No Rotor, No Motor.
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2 May 2006, 14:27 (Ref:1599400)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 765
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Wins = 0
IMO I dont think it has and that is the main reson why the above statistic is what it is. They have the pace to be mixing it with Renault, Honda & Ferrari alot more often than they have achieved so far. We have seen their pace improve in the later stages of the race, Montoya getting 3rd at Imola. But heavy fuel loads are jeopardising their chances of a good grid slot and a hope of being at the front. |
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2 May 2006, 15:10 (Ref:1599412)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,006
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It doesn't. It's not working.
a) you can get involved in accidents b) you cannot overtake do you need more?
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7 May 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1602369)
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#21 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Another brilliant strategy today, this time on JPM's car. The longest first stint of all time which left him with a woeful grid slot for Nurburgrings tight first section. Got swamped by Fisi and a BMW and that was that, race over.
Message to McLaren: go for grid position a little more aggressively! |
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7 May 2006, 14:04 (Ref:1602375)
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#22 | ||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,467
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An odd choice today. According to the ITV build-up three stops was technically the quickest, but only just. Hence making two stops the choice to not risk any traffic. However that surely makes a long fist stint (i.e. half the race!) an odd choice. It isn't the quickest, sacrifices grid position, makes the start risky and doesn't really give you track position if you are going to do a stop stopper anyway. Odd.
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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7 May 2006, 14:06 (Ref:1602377)
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#23 | ||
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Forum Host
Veteran
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Well i couldnt understand what they were aiming to achieve with JPM's strategy..... very very odd
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__________________
A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off."
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7 May 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1602386)
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#24 | ||
 Race Official20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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Getting him ****ed to leave and try another team ?
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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7 May 2006, 14:17 (Ref:1602388)
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#25 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,181
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Maybe it was Juan's call?
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"And the most important thing is that we, the Vettels, the Bernies, whoever, should not destroy our own sport by making stupid comments about the ******* noise." - Niki Lauda
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