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14 Jul 2010, 19:51 (Ref:2726743) | #1026 | ||
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I see your points when it comes to teams shelling out for new equipment in 2012, JagtechOhio, but
- Exactly how competitive would the current Dallara be when it would be dragging a 200 lbs. anchor against the new cars? I think we know the answer to that question, don't we? -How much would it cost to refit that old Dallara to hold the new engines, and? -Why would Dallara want to get involved in creating new engine covers for the old cars (sans airbox) or those refit chits and bits to accommodate the new engines when they are focused on selling the new product? I highly doubt that seven guys sat around in a vacuum to come up with this...I would think that they would have talked to all of the builders about this scenario and gotten input from them before taking this step. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:01 (Ref:2726750) | #1027 | ||
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14 Jul 2010, 20:03 (Ref:2726753) | #1028 | ||
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The old car though, teams have amortized the cost of them via depreciation and it's a cost of going racing. These old dogs only have a finite "life" to them anyways. All this is to me is a punt with a few bones tossed out as weak appeasement. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:11 (Ref:2726755) | #1029 | |||
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Teams are allowed to do their own suspension parts now...they won't be able to in this new scenario...at least for now...I think this is a potentially bad part of the idea, because Dallara's price for those parts a going to be marked up, and the teams can produce them cheaper or they wouldn't already be doing it now. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:12 (Ref:2726756) | #1030 | ||
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And yeah I do think people care what the cars look like. Who wants to watch ugly cars? |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:20 (Ref:2726762) | #1031 | ||
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14 Jul 2010, 20:21 (Ref:2726765) | #1032 | ||
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I've been told there exists an "indycar tax" on all parts sold by dallara and I am sure that arrangement would continue here. Clearly where the money is, is in spare parts. So it works for indycar, they continue to get their pockets lined with taxing the spare parts sold and dallara builds a facility near the speedway and I am sure there is all sorts of other back room dealing we can only imagine. I see the body panel thing for what it is, a bone tossed to the other companies and maybe the fans that want to see some differences in the car. It's superficial and tiny. I also can't see dallara being too interested in having competing companies like Lola pour over it's intellectual property to make a competing body panel kit that is competitive and works with the dallara car. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:24 (Ref:2726767) | #1033 | |||
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Gosh, maybe I need to go to Confession...the apocalypse must be drawing near! Seriously...I think that a common basic monococque with the freedom to design everything else within some loose guidelines that would open up the creativity would have been the best move. As far as looks, I would not have wanted to see a bunch of DeltaWings running around on the track...and the current Dallara is an ugly race car. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:26 (Ref:2726769) | #1034 | ||
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They should ban Dallara from producing side pods, rear wings, engine covers and front wings to FORCE teams to produce their own and perhaps encourage Delta Wing, Lola, Swift etc. to produce kits as well.
Okay, unreasonable? Yes. But this will just turn into a Dallara/Honda show again. Let's get ready for "Next Generation IndyCar Chassis" talk in 2015. Chris Last edited by Jonerz; 14 Jul 2010 at 20:32. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:37 (Ref:2726775) | #1035 | |
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The Dallara, while an ugly race car, gives us some pretty good racing, though. I wouldn't have minded if they retrofit them personally. My gripe is mainly with HPD and their milquetoast engines. It's all great saying your engines never blow up, but any one with a brain can see that they probably don't run those engines any higher than 85 percent of their performance capacity. A 3.4L pure race built V8 that runs 10K revs isn't that impressive, especially when their street cars run to 8K pretty easily. Hell, F1 V8's barely ever explode any more and they run to 18K.
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14 Jul 2010, 20:38 (Ref:2726776) | #1036 | ||
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From ESPN chat underway right now:
Gomer from Earl, Indiana: Good job having the guts on making a hard decision Randy. Will Teams like Penske and Ganassi be able to make skins for the new cars? Randy Bernard (4:28 PM) Yes. They will be able to make aero kits for their new cars, but you're only allowed two sets of kits in one year. And if you make a set, you have to be able to sell them to any other team for a max price of $70,000. |
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14 Jul 2010, 20:40 (Ref:2726777) | #1037 | ||
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You gotta admit, IndyCar tries to walk a fine line to keep people happy. The new design is a compromise for all manufactuers. Perhaps it's a good thing, perhaps not. We shall see. As long as the racing stays competitive, to me that's all that matters.
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14 Jul 2010, 20:50 (Ref:2726782) | #1038 | ||
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Do we think Ganassi and Penske will spend the money to produce their own stuff? I sure hope so, at least we'd have three different-looking cars in the field.
Hopefully bigger horsepower and ChampCar-like aerodynamic principles will put the drivers back in the gladiator league and we'll have a 1980's-like boom. Then, when IndyCar is popular again they can get multiple chassis and proper open competition again. Don't know how I feel, but the formula, even if it isn't what I or many IndyCar fans initially wanted, does have potential. Chris |
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14 Jul 2010, 21:08 (Ref:2726788) | #1039 | ||
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You have to wonder what ganassi's thoughts are on all this after his move with the delta wing to take intellectual and financial control over chassis supply and parts. It's clear the speedway is keeping the dallara money train close to their chest. Unfortunately I don't have the inside line at ganassi anymore so I don't know. Personally I find myself these days gravitating to other parts of motorsport that traditionally I would not have followed. Things like targa rallies, historics, open road motorcycle racing like the Isle of Man TT, off road racing and so on. Reason being there is no creativity anymore with things like nascar, F1, indycar and so on. No creativity with the tracks, cars and even the drivers are soulness PR automatons. Boring. |
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14 Jul 2010, 21:18 (Ref:2726792) | #1040 | ||
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Thats...actually quite interesting. Any idea what these aero guidelines are? |
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14 Jul 2010, 21:31 (Ref:2726800) | #1041 | ||
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The first issue is aero wake turbulence. Instead of being uniformly reduced as was the intent of Swift or Lola or BAT, it can be exploited for a competitive advantage by the components of a particular manufacturer.
Does Dallara want to make their cars easier to follow and pass? Not if a Peterbuilt Windjammer Special is trying to track it down. |
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14 Jul 2010, 21:35 (Ref:2726802) | #1042 | ||
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I agree, this is something we will just to wait and see how this all plays out.
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14 Jul 2010, 21:48 (Ref:2726808) | #1043 | ||
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14 Jul 2010, 21:52 (Ref:2726810) | #1044 | |
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I am amazed at how little the fans have understood about this announcement.
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14 Jul 2010, 21:59 (Ref:2726816) | #1045 | ||
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Pleas, don't hesitate to enlighten us all once again.
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14 Jul 2010, 22:39 (Ref:2726831) | #1046 | |||
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What if the Dallara rolling chassis/tub turns out to be rubbish, what then? I know HRT F1 team ran out of money, so they couldn't pay for the car's improvements but what were Dallara doing, building a car that needed so maney improvements in the first place? Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 14 Jul 2010 at 22:47. Reason: typo |
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14 Jul 2010, 22:50 (Ref:2726834) | #1047 | |||
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I think this is a decent rule set, and I think we'll see a much improved IndyCar in the future. It's not the open regulations we all wanted, but hopefully it's the first step toward that. |
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14 Jul 2010, 22:58 (Ref:2726839) | #1048 | ||
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14 Jul 2010, 23:07 (Ref:2726843) | #1049 | ||
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WTF is going on?
aero bits from other builders? and in 2+years time? oh man this is really a weak attempt, they might have well stripped the current car, which can withstand a hellfire missle, start with that tub and use the current V8 and new engine and the rest a clean slate - if they are just going to use Dallara anyway. when a new car is in the live carbon i will have a final say but: 1)at least they are moving forward. 2)at least potentially more than one engine |
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14 Jul 2010, 23:11 (Ref:2726844) | #1050 | ||
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claus. I didn't hear or read anything from the IRL that mentioned the mushrrom buster at all, and Swift was not discussed as a continuing participant. I asked Swift on Facebook today, they are often cooperative, and they have not answered yet.
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