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Old 3 Dec 2018, 01:35 (Ref:3867552)   #401
Casper
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Right here will be fine
The forum should be renamed in that case because in case you haven't noticed it these things haven't got a roof.
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Old 3 Dec 2018, 03:00 (Ref:3867561)   #402
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What are you comparing to? This track is a whole lot shorter than the one Supercars runs on at the start of the season
My bad, I completely forgot to elaborate on some important details of the comparison I was drawing - and I should have completely left out the Supercars comparison. I REALLY need to learn to stop posting when I'm tired and need to go to bed, I am far too prone to messing up what I'm trying to express when I do that...


Anyhow, the post by GTRMagic doesn't specify a whole lot of helpful information, so I had to extrapolate the best I could. The most important detail that's missing is whether they're comparing to a time set by the Leyton House car that weekend or back in the days of F1 at Adelaide.

Now, I'm pretty sure they compared to a run made at the event, both due to the wording of the comments in the screencap and because a comparison to the old runs in the F1 days on the old Adelaide F1 layout simply canNOT be considered any sort of helpful piece of information. But since we don't have the lap times available, the best I could do is look up the old F1 lap times and compare it to other cars of the era.

And because the Supercars run on a different layout from what F1 did, I never should have tried to draw a comparison to them at ALL with the available data, even discounting that this event is on a different course.

Assuming I made the right extrapolations, this is still a good sign for the car's performance - the gap would be larger than what was actually shown due to a larger course, but would still likely be close enough. Leyton House was a points-winning team, so they were NOT the slowest cars on the grid(usually - they did have a few DNQs). If I am wrong and they were comparing a run from this event to the old F1 lap times, then there may still be cause for concern, but the wording of the comments alone make me think they were comparing only times set at this event.Early 90s F1 pace is something to be ashamed of, even if it's backmarker pace - particularly considering the cost-controlled nature of the S5000 car.

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Old 3 Dec 2018, 10:10 (Ref:3867594)   #403
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The onboard showed that it'll be an exciting car to watch and drive and if we get a grid, it will put on a show. Excited for it now.
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Old 4 Dec 2018, 04:04 (Ref:3867774)   #404
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The forum should be renamed in that case because in case you haven't noticed it these things haven't got a roof.
Yeah a strange response from a moderator that seem to contradict previous actions - especially in regard to Australian Open Wheel and Sportcar categories.
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Old 4 Dec 2018, 04:17 (Ref:3867776)   #405
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Yeah a strange response from a moderator that seem to contradict previous actions - especially in regard to Australian Open Wheel and Sportcar categories.
Yes it is very strange. So is putting threads about other categories into the place you think they should attract traffic, yet they don't.

Logically someone might think other forum categories would be appropriate, yet the lack of patronage might suggest otherwise, threads drowning instead inside the other world categories that have seem to have more posters from those geographic regions..
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Old 4 Dec 2018, 12:03 (Ref:3867826)   #406
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Yes it is very strange. So is putting threads about other categories into the place you think they should attract traffic, yet they don't.

Logically someone might think other forum categories would be appropriate, yet the lack of patronage might suggest otherwise, threads drowning instead inside the other world categories that have seem to have more posters from those geographic regions..
So make this forum for Oz circuit racing with no limitations in the title. Change doesn't sit well with you?
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Old 4 Dec 2018, 13:25 (Ref:3867843)   #407
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It's been changed before, and then changed back because people didn't like that either...

12 hours is a truly international race so should be with the sportscars as it does. F5000 is an Australian specific series, so does it go in international single seaters or Australian racing? My feeling is it will get talked about here as part of the Supercar package and not in single seaters where no-one else is really very interested.

Bear in mind that British racing is a much bigger thing than Aus and doesn't have it's own section, so you have to accept that this forum deals with a particularly parochial branch of the sport. So I too am content for it to remain here without a forum name change, even though it's not on the face of it entirely logical.

You see, you think we don't think about these things, but we do!
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Old 5 Dec 2018, 01:07 (Ref:3867969)   #408
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Is it just me or is there no real problem here???
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Old 5 Dec 2018, 06:01 (Ref:3867984)   #409
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Perhaps rename the Topic S5000 Series. Checking out Lambdens latest facebook post he has stated that "several cars are now accounted for".
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Old 5 Dec 2018, 08:14 (Ref:3867996)   #410
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It's been changed before, and then changed back because people didn't like that either...

12 hours is a truly international race so should be with the sportscars as it does. F5000 is an Australian specific series, so does it go in international single seaters or Australian racing? My feeling is it will get talked about here as part of the Supercar package and not in single seaters where no-one else is really very interested.

Bear in mind that British racing is a much bigger thing than Aus and doesn't have it's own section, so you have to accept that this forum deals with a particularly parochial branch of the sport. So I too am content for it to remain here without a forum name change, even though it's not on the face of it entirely logical.

You see, you think we don't think about these things, but we do!
I suppose it is a non issue as the series will be defunct in a short time, open wheel racing has just about zero audience interest in this country except for a few old farts like me that remember F5000. The rest of open wheel racing history may as well be a big black hole as no class lasted long enough to make an impact. Stand at ease and as you were!
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Old 5 Dec 2018, 11:31 (Ref:3868022)   #411
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I suppose it is a non issue as the series will be defunct in a short time, open wheel racing has just about zero audience interest in this country except for a few old farts like me that remember F5000. The rest of open wheel racing history may as well be a big black hole as no class lasted long enough to make an impact. Stand at ease and as you were!
God you are the ultimate pessimist
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Old 5 Dec 2018, 13:18 (Ref:3868045)   #412
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I suppose it is a non issue as the series will be defunct in a short time, open wheel racing has just about zero audience interest in this country except for a few old farts like me that remember F5000. The rest of open wheel racing history may as well be a big black hole as no class lasted long enough to make an impact. Stand at ease and as you were!
So the view is 'not worth changing it, because it'll change back before we've completed the change'?

I hope it works. History isn't on it's side, but there's the making of something potentially good if it's managed properly.
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Old 6 Dec 2018, 04:56 (Ref:3868195)   #413
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I hope it’s a success as open wheelers need a category that grabs fan attention at race meetings. F4 doesn’t do it. The only other open wheelers that’s garnered a lot of love (apart from F1) are the original F5000s.
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Old 6 Dec 2018, 06:04 (Ref:3868199)   #414
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I reckon FF would still also still draw a decent crowd if CAMS hadn't scuttled it and schedules allowed repeat eyeballs
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Old 6 Dec 2018, 06:34 (Ref:3868202)   #415
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So the view is 'not worth changing it, because it'll change back before we've completed the change'?

I hope it works. History isn't on it's side, but there's the making of something potentially good if it's managed properly.
Yep! you have got it in one. Formula 4 was forced on CAMS by the FIA and was never going to work because it alienated most of the competitors it was supposed to appeal to. According to the FIA everyone in Oz wanted to be a Formula 1 driver and Formula 4 was the bottom rung of the ladder. This new series has been thought up by someone because he thinks that it should appeal to the Oz motor sport audience because it reminds him of F5000 which most of the current audience has never seen and a damned lot of them have most probably never even heard of.

That sounds look a real recipe for success in a country which except for a few short years has never supported open wheelers even when motor sport had a huge number of followers. Reality or pessimism, take your pick but I have been around this sport both as a spectator and a competitor since the mid 60's and watched it all happen before.
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Old 6 Dec 2018, 18:07 (Ref:3868338)   #416
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This new series has been thought up by someone because he thinks that it should appeal to the Oz motor sport audience because it reminds him of F5000 which most of the current audience has never seen and a damned lot of them have most probably never even heard of.
Should S(not)5000 allow a variety of engines with a balance of performance like the Daytona prototype class in IMSA? The Daytona prototype class has manufacturers including Honda, Cadillac, Mazda and Nissan, many of which wouldn't be tempted by a NASCAR type series.

The sooner an alternative category can break the dominance of Virgin Australia Supercars series and run exciting events including an Adelaide Grand Prix and Gold Coast Grand Prix, the better!

[Potentially, Australian GT could be another rival to Supercars and could attract manufacturers including Audi, Mercedes, Nissan and Honda, but with Supercars themselves running the categories marquee event and a reliance on gentleman drivers in the national series, this is not feasible...]

Regardless of what the category be, be it a Formula car category, be a GT category, be it another touring car, wouldn't it be grand to dismantle Supercars Australia dominance of local motorsport, their anti-competitive practices (like running a test on the same day as the Bathurst 12 hour) and their exorbitant ticket prices needed in order to prop up their entrants with REC income due to the running costs exceeding the value of commercial sponsorship return...?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 6 Dec 2018 at 18:15.
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Old 6 Dec 2018, 21:03 (Ref:3868379)   #417
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Should S(not)5000 allow a variety of engines with a balance of performance like the Daytona prototype class in IMSA? The Daytona prototype class has manufacturers including Honda, Cadillac, Mazda and Nissan, many of which wouldn't be tempted by a NASCAR type series.
That's for the future. They're trying to keep costs down while they get it going. It's the Formula E methodology - start out spec and cheap, and if there's enough interest you can open up the rules later. They can't afford to price the series out of existence, that's the entire idea behind going for the Ford Coyote V8 instead of Supercars engines.

If I were trying to start a modern F5000 here in the States, mine would have multiple engines right out the gate, but that's because my series would use the same engines as TA2 so there'd be no reason to go full spec on such rules - the TA2 engines are already effectively cost controlled, widely available, and well balanced against each other.

I would also have to name the series F6000 since all three of the TA2 engines are closer to 6 liters(they're all actually a bit bigger than 6L).
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 00:05 (Ref:3868412)   #418
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I wonder what prevented S5000 from manufacturing the chassis locally? Surely we have the skillset and manufacturing capability? I understand they wanted to keep development costs down buying off the shelf, but France?? Can't wait to see the cost of spare parts when our dollar goes tits up.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 01:15 (Ref:3868418)   #419
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The sooner an alternative category can break the dominance of Virgin Australia Supercars series and run exciting events including an Adelaide Grand Prix and Gold Coast Grand Prix, the better!
Mate, last time I checked the calendar it was 2018....

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[Potentially, Australian GT could be another rival to Supercars and could attract manufacturers including Audi, Mercedes, Nissan and Honda, but with Supercars themselves running the categories marquee event and a reliance on gentleman drivers in the national series, this is not feasible...]
If I remember correctly, the rules for AGT don't allow for factory teams.... If the manufacturer builds a FIA GT3 spec, that's all you need...

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Regardless of what the category be, be it a Formula car category, be a GT category, be it another touring car, wouldn't it be grand to dismantle Supercars Australia dominance of local motorsport, their anti-competitive practices (like running a test on the same day as the Bathurst 12 hour) and their exorbitant ticket prices needed in order to prop up their entrants with REC income due to the running costs exceeding the value of commercial sponsorship return...?
We can all dream that this might happen one day, but somehow doubt any of us would see it in our life time...
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 01:25 (Ref:3868419)   #420
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Any chance of bringing the 12 hour threads back in here while we're at it?
Yes, it's dying a slow death over in GT land.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 01:27 (Ref:3868420)   #421
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Yes, it's dying a slow death over in GT land.
To be fair, the quality of posts has improved.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 01:47 (Ref:3868423)   #422
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I wonder what prevented S5000 from manufacturing the chassis locally? Surely we have the skillset and manufacturing capability?
Nothing really prevented them from doing it, they're just taking a cautious approach for a very good reason: They don't even know if the series is going to succeed yet. Why invest in a local production facility before you even know that? Onroak already had their US facility up and running to support their LMP2 and LMP3 cars here in the States, so it wasn't a big deal to take a chance on the F3 Americas car, but the situation for Australia is a little different.

If the series proves successful, then yes, they should take a very serious look at producing the Onroak-built parts in-country for the series. But until then, the cost of setting up the facilities is tough to justify.

Even then, from what I understand, several of the parts actually ARE to be built in Australia. From what I've seen, Onroak will be building the tub, wings, bodywork, and...that's it. Suspension, engine, wheels, all built in Australia.

So they're not blind to the idea, they're just making sure to look and think before they jump.

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I understand they wanted to keep development costs down buying off the shelf, but France??
America, actually. The car it's based on is built at Onroak's US facility.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 01:53 (Ref:3868425)   #423
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https://www.motorsport.com/us/openwh...-deal/4308791/

13-car order is a pretty solid start - and there's plenty of time for more orders. Hopefully they all make it to the grid. The first F4 US race had 14 cars, it finished their most recent season with a 33-car grid.

Hopefully S5000 manages similar growth.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 02:30 (Ref:3868427)   #424
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Should S(not)5000 allow a variety of engines with a balance of performance like the Daytona prototype class in IMSA? The Daytona prototype class has manufacturers including Honda, Cadillac, Mazda and Nissan, many of which wouldn't be tempted by a NASCAR type series.

The sooner an alternative category can break the dominance of Virgin Australia Supercars series and run exciting events including an Adelaide Grand Prix and Gold Coast Grand Prix, the better!

[Potentially, Australian GT could be another rival to Supercars and could attract manufacturers including Audi, Mercedes, Nissan and Honda, but with Supercars themselves running the categories marquee event and a reliance on gentleman drivers in the national series, this is not feasible...]

Regardless of what the category be, be it a Formula car category, be a GT category, be it another touring car, wouldn't it be grand to dismantle Supercars Australia dominance of local motorsport, their anti-competitive practices (like running a test on the same day as the Bathurst 12 hour) and their exorbitant ticket prices needed in order to prop up their entrants with REC income due to the running costs exceeding the value of commercial sponsorship return...?
Why the hate, they have provided good professional motor racing but have to make some hard decisions next year because the recipe got tossed out with the bath water and they could be looking at no future. What they had no longer has a long term future unfortunately and if it folds a lot of people will lose a lot of money.
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Old 7 Dec 2018, 02:36 (Ref:3868429)   #425
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https://www.motorsport.com/us/openwh...-deal/4308791/

13-car order is a pretty solid start - and there's plenty of time for more orders. Hopefully they all make it to the grid. The first F4 US race had 14 cars, it finished their most recent season with a 33-car grid.

Hopefully S5000 manages similar growth.
Remind me how many F4 cars CAMS ordered. Ordering and racing is a totally different thing. I just don't see it, the well heeled are driving other classes and the rest of the money is tied up in SC for next year at least.
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