Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Barn Finds > A1GP

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 26 Nov 2006, 02:48 (Ref:1775021)   #1
Kiwi3
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
New Zealand
Beijing
Posts: 1,219
Kiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKiwi3 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A1 cars require more skill than F1!

...Yes it's true, according to Neel Jani (who should know, being Toro Rosso's Friday test driver during 2006).

"It's very hard to drive these cars, but this is a track I like.

"To be quick you have to find a way to slide these cars without losing time, it requires more skill to drive these cars than in F1." (source: Autosport.com)

I would have thought they would be a lot easier to drive. Being significantly slower the G-Force experienced must be a lot lower.
Kiwi3 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2006, 17:10 (Ref:1775331)   #2
outflat
Registered User
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 230
outflat should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi3
I would have thought they would be a lot easier to drive. Being significantly slower the G-Force experienced must be a lot lower.
The G-Force impacts on how physically "easy to drive" it would be, and clearly F1 will be harder that way.

But being able to make the car go quickly is a different matter.
outflat is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2006, 19:31 (Ref:1775396)   #3
gravel_monkey
Veteran
 
gravel_monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
widnes
Posts: 1,447
gravel_monkey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
well just remember the a1 is a proper race car (sort of) with no driver aids at all.
gravel_monkey is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2006, 19:42 (Ref:1775401)   #4
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
You know, I was surprised. I fully expected Neel to say the A1 GP cars required a lower level of skill and to downplay his weekends achievements. I was shocked.
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2006, 21:10 (Ref:1775450)   #5
ScotsBrutesFan
Race Official
Veteran
 
ScotsBrutesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Scotland
West Lothian
Posts: 5,692
ScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
F1 cars have dumbed down a bit in recent years, but an A1GP car has as been said no driver aids.
That means no traction control,
Mechanical gearshifts under driver and not computer control
No launch control
And as Germany showed today...no anti-stall for the pitstops.

So while the drivers may not be under the same physical G loading, they have so much more to concentrate on in order to get the best from the car.
ScotsBrutesFan is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Nov 2006, 21:43 (Ref:1775463)   #6
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,394
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
When have F1 cars been the most difficult cars to drive? Since 1950 this has rarely been the case. I hope no one is suggesting we should be surprised about this.

With vast differences between the cars in F1 it will aways be the car that first and foremost produces the lap times. In a spec. series it is harder to grab the advantage over the other guy (although set-up can go along way to do that).
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2006, 07:28 (Ref:1775660)   #7
The Zuschauer
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 161
The Zuschauer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Every car is difficult to drive fast, at the absolute limit. I don't see how you could say that a Formula One is easy to drive. There's a reason why the best-of-the-best are driving them.

It's a level of finesse, attitude, fitness, technical ability (and a whole host of other qualities) that make a Formula One driver excel.

If Schumacher (the fast one) or Alonso were to make the same comment as Jani, it would be more credible. Jani's F1 experience is somewhat limited, having only ever been involved in testing.
The Zuschauer is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2006, 07:35 (Ref:1775662)   #8
Gt_R
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 5,917
Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree with AdamAshmore in a way.

If anything, F1's position as the "pinnacle" of technology and motorsports is a burden as much as it is a advantage. A spec series such as A1GP can concentrate much on it's structure around entertainment, removing traction control, a very basic car which is simply is huge horsepower powering the rear wheels without aids. Nobody can improve it, as the car comes as it is, and the only thing is done to driver and engineers to get the best set up and go on with the race.

In that sense, it's natural the car is harder to drive. F1 on the otherhand has to balance the desire of fans, drivers and most importantly manufacturers who are keen to see all sorts of advances. An F1 car vs A1GP car is equivalent to comparing a Mclaren Mercedes SLR vs a Lotus Elise. Both are fast, both sporty.. but taking different routes. Still, an SLR is more expensive and at the higher "pinnacle".

It's interesting to watch drivers impress and slide around, controlling trottle and stuff. Sepang was great to watch, and Nico's ability to win by such a margin is really something to take ntoe of.
Gt_R is offline  
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
Quote
Old 27 Nov 2006, 17:02 (Ref:1775991)   #9
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I don't believe that it is any harder to drive an A1 GP car though. I think, really, it just calls on different skills.

No racing car is easy anyways.
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2006, 06:02 (Ref:1776370)   #10
RotorFan
Veteran
 
RotorFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
Sydney
Posts: 2,208
RotorFan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You're excusing away F1 with your fancy philosophy - for me, it requires more brain power to control a car in the wet with no traction control than with. Yesyes?
RotorFan is offline  
__________________
Phil Mills: 30, 6-Left-Plus Over-Crest-Long, Opens-Over-Crest 100, COW-COW, 100, 6-Left-Minus Extra-Long

Fabrizio Giovanardi: I have like a banana - is the yellow car in front - that make me, you know, running like the monkey, running for the banana. When I see yellow in front, I just pushing harder and harder. I want that banana.
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2006, 13:02 (Ref:1776616)   #11
ISPL
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United Kingdom
Posts: 48
ISPL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is a red herring to talk about which car is (or maybe) more technically difficult to drive. Every formula has its oddities. Whatever the car and whatever the driver aids is irrelevant. The real question is what a driver and team can add to the performance of the car. A good driver and team should shine in any formula if they are able to find that extra 10% perfomance to bring to the car.
ISPL is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2006, 13:04 (Ref:1776617)   #12
ISPL
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United Kingdom
Posts: 48
ISPL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As I'm now offically calssed as a 'Rookie' does that mean I can only comment on Friday free practice?
ISPL is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1776631)   #13
Mystery
Veteran
 
Mystery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Jersey
Jersey
Posts: 1,676
Mystery should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMystery should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISPL
As I'm now offically calssed as a 'Rookie' does that mean I can only comment on Friday free practice?
No not at all - the rest of us have commented on more than 6 races previously and therefore we are now no longer allowed to comment on Friday rookie practice.

Maybe
Mystery is offline  
__________________
"If we are all god's children, what's so special about Jesus?" - Jimmy Carr
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2006, 17:45 (Ref:1776844)   #14
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorFan
You're excusing away F1 with your fancy philosophy - for me, it requires more brain power to control a car in the wet with no traction control than with. Yesyes?
Sorry, but I am not, and never will excuse away F1.

I, like anyone else, would prefer to see less driver aids.

However, I have serious doubts that Neel Jani would jump into a Ferrari and suddenly find his life extremely easy.
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Nov 2006, 00:38 (Ref:1777072)   #15
liamoohay
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 77
liamoohay should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
lets put it this way:

if we have shuey and ferdie in the a1gp races they wouldn't neccessary shine with such clarity as they did in much superior cars as they had in f1. and certainly they wouldn't be sharing the wins in a1 between them and many drivers in a1 now have a better or equal chance than these 2.

i also think that playstation kids may be more adapt to driving a f1 car than a a1 car although they would still fail miserably in both.

liamoohay is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2006, 13:50 (Ref:1778627)   #16
Rubinho
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Cambridge, UK
Posts: 167
Rubinho should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan
...Mechanical gearshifts under driver and not computer control...
Actually the A1GP car has Zytek electronic paddle-shift. You were pretty much on the button with the other points though.
Rubinho is offline  
__________________
"Ah," said Dirk "it is a rare mind indeed that can render the hitherto non-existent blindingly obvious."
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2006, 17:01 (Ref:1778821)   #17
Knowlesy
20KPINAL
 
Knowlesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
Knowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameKnowlesy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoohay

if we have shuey and ferdie in the a1gp races they wouldn't neccessary shine with such clarity as they did in much superior cars as they had in f1.
They would shine I suspect. And they'd make mincemeat of the A1 GP field, which is hardly an almighty throng.

Alonso may find it hard to beat the competition on foot, given Spain don't enter a car though.
Knowlesy is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2006, 13:22 (Ref:1779471)   #18
Frank_White
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 400
Frank_White should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I suspect that F1 is easy to drive up to a point and for the last 2.5-1 seconds its incredibly hard. just look at Mika's f1 test. It helps to consider that Mika was driving in the DTM for the last two years and yet he found it extremely difficult (read his interview on Autosport) to drive the McLaren.

Even Hamilton said in a recent interview that F1 cars are the hardest he's ever driven in terms of finding the limit.

To put this in further context, I'd wager that ANY active F1 drive could compete very very well in A1GP (even a F1 failure like Alex Yoong) but 95% of the A1GP field wouldn't be at all competitive in a F1 car.

Last edited by Frank_White; 1 Dec 2006 at 13:27.
Frank_White is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2006, 21:03 (Ref:1779829)   #19
ScotsBrutesFan
Race Official
Veteran
 
ScotsBrutesFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Scotland
West Lothian
Posts: 5,692
ScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameScotsBrutesFan will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubinho
Actually the A1GP car has Zytek electronic paddle-shift. You were pretty much on the button with the other points though.
I knew the system was electro mechanical paddle shifts....the point I was making was more about approaching a corner in an F1 car an activating the computer system that knew how many gears it actually had to change down through (for any given corner) and did so in a way that prevented over-revving.
But as I also said the F1 cars have been dumbed down a bit, and that system isn't in operation in quite that way anymore.

Last edited by ScotsBrutesFan; 1 Dec 2006 at 21:06.
ScotsBrutesFan is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2006, 21:55 (Ref:1779863)   #20
strider
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
strider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
England
Middle Earth
Posts: 8,408
strider has a real shot at the championship!strider has a real shot at the championship!strider has a real shot at the championship!strider has a real shot at the championship!strider has a real shot at the championship!strider has a real shot at the championship!
Going back to what Neil Jani said originally, part of it was that it had taken him time to adapt afresh to A1GP after his F1 testing. He said that was why he had not been on the pace straightaway in Beijing. Actually it would have been a miracle if he had been, considering the circuit and the absence of pre-race testing!

As the F1 tyres are harder for next year and the cars slide more at the moment, maybe the difference won't be so great in future, although I expect the F1 boffins will soon get a handle on the tyres and make things better.
strider is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If F1 were A1.... JohnnyFiama Formula One 33 6 Dec 2005 13:48
Saw the A1 cars Racer_kyle A1GP 15 30 Jun 2005 00:48
A1 to Replace F1 mortda A1GP 30 1 Feb 2005 17:38
F1 vs Rally Driver Skill Brett Munckton Rallying & Rallycross 30 20 Dec 2002 01:03


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.