NZV8's 2011/12

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

I'm not saying it's an issue that bares any reflection on Jono's integrity.
However, what we're talking about is a little different to supplying general motorsport services. Jono's been employed to build brand preference, that ain't going to happen if he's got a foot (or seen to have a foot) in both camps.
In other word, how happy would Mike Pero be if Murph turned up on a BNZ ad?
It may not be an issue though, perhaps there's not competitive clause in his contract?

You have already dug yourself in, now your trying to dig yourself out.

If you could get rid of the tunnel vision, then things might not seem so bad.

[Chappelli]

Not trying to dig myself out of anything. I think it's evidence that Jono probably isn't the social media professional that MSNZ were spruiking and it's probably also a good example of them not crossing their I's and dotting their t's (if there in fact isn't a restraint).

But feel free to explain how trying to being paid to promote one brand while participating in the direct competitors brand isn't a conflict of interest... Remembering Jono's (paid) job is ultimately to get NZ Motorsport fans to choose NZV8's over V8ST...

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Jerico

You have already dug yourself in, now your trying to dig yourself out.

If you could get rid of the tunnel vision, then things might not seem so bad.

I'd also politely suggest that tunnel vision is mistaking a nice guy from a professional situation.

I'd also politely suggest that I ain't got a dog in the fight, so my opinion is based on and changes depending on what I see and hear.... Not which driver I want to procreate with.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Not trying to dig myself out of anything. I think it's evidence that Jono probably isn't the social media professional that MSNZ were spruiking and it's probably also a good example of them not crossing their I's and dotting their t's (if there in fact isn't a restraint).

But feel free to explain how trying to being paid to promote one brand while participating in the direct competitors brand isn't a conflict of interest... Remembering Jono's (paid) job is ultimately to get NZ Motorsport fans to choose NZV8's over V8ST...

******** mate...jono's paid job is to improve the social network presence of tier 1 which includes nzv8 and all the support classes.....his job brief doesn't include being involved in fighting head to head with v8st.......FYI i am told he has an nzv8 deal very close to confirmed for next summer as well.......well he's gonna get crucified if that is confirmed then...oh joy....
******** well seeing i cant use that word..lets try 'rubbish mate'

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Not trying to dig myself out of anything. I think it's evidence that Jono probably isn't the social media professional that MSNZ were spruiking and it's probably also a good example of them not crossing their I's and dotting their t's (if there in fact isn't a restraint).

But feel free to explain how trying to being paid to promote one brand while participating in the direct competitors brand isn't a conflict of interest... Remembering Jono's (paid) job is ultimately to get NZ Motorsport fans to choose NZV8's over V8ST...

It's now more clearer to me what your talking about and I agree with you, you can't have one foot in either camp, it should be one or the other.
How the hell can you get paid to promote a product and then start selling another product, from another manufacturer.

[Chappelli]

Exactly.
Driving for both, no issue. Suppling engineering/parts/signwriting for cars in both no issue. Being employeed to do PR for one and participating in the other... Fairly obvious conflict.

[Speedwayracer44]

Im with Chapelli on this. Take nothing away from Johno on this situation but the motorsport company and msnz will not like this situation, they dont have the forsight to see the positives here and maybe there are none! Both organisations are very anti ST and are doing everything including underarm tactics to ensure they dont succeed. There have been media blacklisted, media passes revoked, and media personal threatened by MSC for participation in ST so Im with you, cant see Johno being around much longer but I reckon hes got more to gain with ST.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Exactly.
Driving for both, no issue. Suppling engineering/parts/signwriting for cars in both no issue. Being employeed to do PR for one and participating in the other... Fairly obvious conflict.

Utterly disagree.

If Jono was intended to be the FACE of NZV8 then I can see how that could be confusing for some simple souls.
My understanding is that his role was to increase the web presence within social media for a series that was prepared to pay him

His employer would have understood that as a semi-professional sportsman Jono would seek opportunities. I would surmise that should his employer have suggested they have veto on his sporting activities the conversation would have been very short. Or his remuneration would have have to exorbitant...

If he worked for Countdown and shopped at New World would there even be this discussion?

[Chappelli]

Probably not. But if you worked at McDonalds you would'nt be allowed to freelance for KFC, if you engineered a car for Stone Brothers you couldn't moonlight in the HRT fabrication dept. and probably more importantly if you worked in marketing for any known social media agency in this country or the one next door a restraint would be absolute standard operating procedure.

Unfortunatley, you can't always have everything and in this case I think if you're choosing to work/hire a professional to try and build your brand, it's an amatuer hour look to be showing up as part of the direct competition. The fact that Jono's name and driving credentials were used on the MSNZ press release say he is a 'face' and hasn't been hired simply because he rates in the world of social media.

However, as you point we're not privy to the contract, you never know it may have been discussed. But certainly in my experience, letting that sort of conflict happen would be very very odd.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by harcey

******** mate...jono's paid job is to improve the social network presence of tier 1 which includes nzv8 and all the support classes.....his job brief doesn't include being involved in fighting head to head with v8st.......FYI i am told he has an nzv8 deal very close to confirmed for next summer as well.......well he's gonna get crucified if that is confirmed then...oh joy....
******** well seeing i cant use that word..lets try 'rubbish mate'

I think you're getting you friendship mixed up with a professional situation.
If the brief doesn't include or the people briefing Jono don't recognise that they are going head to head with V8ST then they are naive to the extreme... Fans, TV coverage, Investors (I.e people willing to drop a couple of hundred thousand on a car) and sponsors are all limited resources (just look at how many car owners and sponsors have switched from V8ST to NZV8's already), if your social media campaigns primary purpose isn't to strengthen your position in the aforementioned, then I'd love to know why you'd bother. Certainly if MSNZ aren't seriously concerned about the rate of knots at which V8ST are winning their fans, sponsors and investors, then in my opinion they're as good as gone.

If Jono ends up driving in NZV8's that's brilliant. It's simply the sitaution of having the guy who's supposedly charged with saying 'this championship should be motorsport fans/sponsors/investors first port of call' making his first port of call the championship that could very well render his employers extinct.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Probably not. But if you worked at McDonalds you would'nt be allowed to freelance for KFC, if you engineered a car for Stone Brothers you couldn't moonlight in the HRT fabrication dept. and probably more importantly if you worked in marketing for any known social media agency in this country or the one next door a restraint would be absolute standard operating procedure.

Unfortunatley, you can't always have everything and in this case I think if you're choosing to work/hire a professional to try and build your brand, it's an amatuer hour look to be showing up as part of the direct competition. The fact that Jono's name and driving credentials were used on the MSNZ press release say he is a 'face' and hasn't been hired simply because he rates in the world of social media.

However, as you point we're not privy to the contract, you never know it may have been discussed. But certainly in my experience, letting that sort of conflict happen would be very very odd.

Now you are just trolling with post after post.

There is a big difference with someone who is a full time employee and someone who is in business for themselves and provides goods and services to the marketplace.

It is no different from a graphics logo designer that designs car liveries for whoever that wants them, or a sports agent that represents multiple companies, sponsors or sportsman, or a parts supplier that supplies parts to whoever purchases them.

You appear to fail to understand the distinction and also seem to assume impropriety where none may exist.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Exactly.
Driving for both, no issue. Suppling engineering/parts/signwriting for cars in both no issue. Being employeed to do PR for one and participating in the other... Fairly obvious conflict.

No it isn't, marketing and PR agencies do it every single day.

When you are in business for yourself, basing a business like that around one sole client is not very good business.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

But if you worked at McDonalds you would'nt be allowed to freelance for KFC

However, if you build websites for McDonalds during the week there's absolutely nothing to stop you working at KFC over the week-end.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jerico

It's now more clearer to me what your talking about and I agree with you, you can't have one foot in either camp, it should be one or the other.
How the hell can you get paid to promote a product and then start selling another product, from another manufacturer.

I do it all the time.

You and Chapelli seem to think that if a business provides a service or good to one customer, then that business must have total and complete loyalty to that customer and can have no other customers. That isn't how it works out there in the world.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Woolley

However, if you build websites for McDonalds during the week there's absolutely nothing to stop you working at KFC over the week-end.

Unless McDonalds has retained your total and complete services and paid you off for signing a non compete clause, then certainly you can.

Everyone has a right to work and make a living and especially if they are taking part as a non paid professional in a motor race, it's no one else's business.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

No it isn't, marketing and PR agencies do it every single day.

Some interesting comments here with clearly two distinct camps, just like the racing classes themselves.

mountainstar, your posts contain a lot of considered thought and mostly I'd agree with you. But not this time. Yes, marketing and PR agencies do it all the time, but nobody would know about it.

Jono plasters himself over every social media there is, and that may even be how he got the job in the first place. But MSNZ have made a big thing about appointing him, and now he's got a co-drive in "the other class" while courting an NZV8 drive to boot! The big difference is this is all very public, everyone following the sport will read or hear about it somewhere, and many of the punters in the stand will think it's very odd (in my humble opinion anyway).

He's entitled to take up any opportunity offered, but it's all about PERCEPTION!

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I do it all the time.

You and Chapelli seem to think that if a business provides a service or good to one customer, then that business must have total and complete loyalty to that customer and can have no other customers. That isn't how it works out there in the world.

So you work in the PR/Marketing/Media world?
I do and I seem to remember that every single contract I've ever signed or been privy to has had a restraint clause or is worded to avoid the sort of situation we have here (personalities allowed to have behind the scenes rolls as long as it's kept quiet-ish)

But that's sort of beside the point as I'm not privy to what's in that contract (or if there is a formal contract). The point is, in much the same way that Mike Pero Mortgages doesn't retain the full and unfettered services of Greg Murphy, you're not going to see him fronting a commercial for Adam Parore mortgages. In the same way that SBW isn't employed by Coke, he's banned from doing commercials for Pepsi. To be fair, both of those examples are a step removed from the situation we're talking about where a Jono is being retained to promote one company and being used to promote their direct competitor.

In most instances there are clauses in contracts (that beyond your own intregrity) stop you from doing anything that could be an issue if you're servicing two competitiors. That all changes when your job is based on who your are as much as what you do.

And Woolley, contracts excused you're right. Nothing to stop a Freelance Web Designer from serving counter at KFC... But how long do you think his contract would last if he was being paid to be the public front of McDonalds facebook activity and was seen in a commercial for KFC eating there delicious Chicken (that he acted in for free, because he's an aspiring actor)..

[BlueBlood]

NZV8's & ST are rivals right?
Jono is being paid to promote one of these series.
Would Murph be seen co-driving in a Ford do you think?
Jono is a racing driver, and needs to take whatever chances come his way, but there is a conflict of interests here IMO.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I do it all the time.

You and Chapelli seem to think that if a business provides a service or good to one customer, then that business must have total and complete loyalty to that customer and can have no other customers. That isn't how it works out there in the world.

The way I see it is if you are employing someone, or paying someone to work for you, you don't expect to see them working for your competitor, who is also in the same line of business as yourself.

However we are not all the same and as people we will always see things differently than others, to me it comes down to ethics, which some people seem to have more of than others.

But I hope you have noticed that neither Chapelli, or myself have resorted to calling people trolls, or of trolling. We have not called people simple souls because they don't agree. Perhaps there is a lession to be learnt here after all, people do not like to be referred to as a simple souls.

[Woolley]

I still fail to see the problem. He's contracted to provide a particular service to one series. As long as he gives that his full commitment within the contract he has he's fully at liberty to do as he wishes with his spare time. The detail is in the contract, and I'm assuming it doesn't preclude other activities else he wouldn't be undertaking them. And if it doesn't, as long as he fulfils his contract to the best of his ability then conflict of interest doesn't apply. I'm with Mountainstar on this one - it happens more than you can imagine, it's just that in this case you're aware of it happening. Still doesn't make it wrong.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I still fail to see the problem. He's contracted to provide a particular service to one series. As long as he gives that his full commitment within the contract he has he's fully at liberty to do as he wishes with his spare time. The detail is in the contract, and I'm assuming it doesn't preclude other activities else he wouldn't be undertaking them. And if it doesn't, as long as he fulfils his contract to the best of his ability then conflict of interest doesn't apply. I'm with Mountainstar on this one - it happens more than you can imagine, it's just that in this case you're aware of it happening. Still doesn't make it wrong.

In my view it's a bit like this, you have been employed to advertise Shell petrol, your advert states that you only ever use Shell in your car. Why? because it's the best, we have all scene these types of commercials before.
But here is the difference to what we are talking about, every weekend you are seen in person filling your car at a BP station and everynight your telling us on the TV that you only ever use Shell, would Shell be happy to know this? I would think your advert would pulled immediately and any future employment would be over.

In business or sport today, it's all about commitment, trust and ethics.

Your are up late tonight Woolley and upsetting the natives.

[Goat Boy]

Why don't we just ask Straightline or Tracie what they think??

[Chappelli]

I agree with Woolley in that it does depend on the contract. In saying that, in my experience (which is in a similar but different field) because a significant amount of what you're buying (hype, buzz call it what you will) is intangable, it far more often than not comes with expectations that are different to when you're providing an easily measurable product or service.
Most high end Social Media peeps will tell you that measuring performance simply on the basis of how many 'likes' or 'friends' you have is worthless, measuring performance simply by the number of posts or press releases you make is even worse. You can have all the 'likes' in the world, make all the posts in the world, but if your audience thinks your full of it, then you're wasting you time.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Jerico

The way I see it is if you are employing someone, or paying someone to work for you, you don't expect to see them working for your competitor, who is also in the same line of business as yourself.

However we are not all the same and as people we will always see things differently than others, to me it comes down to ethics, which some people seem to have more of than others.

But I hope you have noticed that neither Chapelli, or myself have resorted to calling people trolls, or of trolling. We have not called people simple souls because they don't agree. Perhaps there is a lession to be learnt here after all, people do not like to be referred to as a simple souls.

Again, people can't see the distinction, which is really no surprise to me.

1. Someone who is employed full time and retained on a full time employment basis.
2. Someone who is an independent business that sells goods and services to multiple customers.

Two very different scenarios and outcomes.

Since the dawn of time, drivers have raced for multiple series in different cars at different tracks. Unless a driver is retained by a manufacturer on a yearly basis with exclusive rights, that driver can race wherever he wants and drivers always have.

No different with any other business out there.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

So you work in the PR/Marketing/Media world?
I do and I seem to remember that every single contract I've ever signed or been privy to has had a restraint clause or is worded to avoid the sort of situation we have here (personalities allowed to have behind the scenes rolls as long as it's kept quiet-ish)

But that's sort of beside the point as I'm not privy to what's in that contract (or if there is a formal contract).

That's right, it's noneofyobidness.

I sign contracts all the time not to reveal proprietary information to anyone else. No big deal.