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9 Jan 2013, 12:40 (Ref:3186834) | #1 | ||
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Peugeot 205/309 GTI Group A
I found an entry for a 1600cc 205GTI in a mid 80s Touring Car race that was part of ETCC, so presumably it was GpA or N? I guess there was no works involvement (rallying a different story) but am curious as to who raced them and where. In production from 1984 (205- 309 '85) to early 90s. 309 would obviously be in 2 litre class, 205 in 1600 or 2 litre.
I'll start searching for more info but welcome input from all the Touring Car experts! |
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9 Jan 2013, 19:21 (Ref:3186973) | #2 | |
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A German team ran a Group A 1600 205GTi in the ETCC for quite a while from about 1985 on, without any success against the Corollas in the 1600 class
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendaman/6283044041/ There were a couple of 205 appearances in the BTCC- again a 1600cc car- in 1986 for the Peugeot Talbot Sport GB rally team, who turned out for the British GP support and at least one other race with an adapted rallycar for Mikael Sundstrom, who scored a fairly spectacular class win in the wet at Brands (something like 3rd overall, albeit in a race with a fairly depleted grid) I don't think I remember a 1.9 205 in Group A racing, though there were quite a few around in Prodasloons- Mike Jordan ran a 309 for about half a BTCC season in 1989 though http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard...-28372122@N05/ |
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9 Jan 2013, 20:07 (Ref:3186997) | #3 | |||
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Thanks for all that. I remember Mike Jordan in the 309, and the ETCC 205 looks like the one I found reference to! I reckon a GpA 1.6 205 would squeeze into the JD Classics Challenge which is up to end of 1985. Would make a relatively cheap but fun entry. |
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10 Jan 2013, 15:08 (Ref:3187310) | #4 | ||
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The german pink/blue 205GTi was raced by Hans 'Ali' Frensch, who has been racing Talbots and Simcas before that.
Here's a picture from the "Frensch Power" website http://www.frensch-power.com/media/7...03694ceaff.jpg Since the car never appeared in the DTM my guess is that it was mainly driven in the Nürburgring Langstreckenpokal (VLN nowadays) I also think that the car was entered under the Haribo Racing Team banner at least a few times. |
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10 Jan 2013, 21:27 (Ref:3187427) | #5 | |||
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10 Jan 2013, 22:05 (Ref:3187450) | #6 | |
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Definitely appeared at Brno, Silverstone for the TT and Zolder at least, so it looks as if it was a fairly regular runner in 1985, and a pretty good fit for that pre-85 series you mentioned
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-06-09-082.jpg http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-29-080.jpg No idea if it was the same car, but Frensch came back with a bright pink 205 in 1988: http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-05-29-130.jpg |
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10 Jan 2013, 22:29 (Ref:3187456) | #7 | ||
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Yes, 1985 was only year by looks of it. 6 rounds, 3 finishes, plus a dnf, dns and dsq! Car was entered by 'Autohaus' at Silverstone, maybe meant to be Autohaus Frensch.
Also in '85 Vedovati Tuning entered a 205 for Monza, driven by Vedovati and Peroni. Finished 21st. From results, the Pug was no match for the best Corolla, Golf or Audi 80, so looks like one year of trying was enough. Not sure about the pink...... |
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11 Jan 2013, 15:41 (Ref:3187782) | #8 | |
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It wasn't entered in 1986 Tourist Trophy.
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12 Jan 2013, 16:52 (Ref:3188232) | #9 | ||
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I think a Gti would make a decent relatively low cost proposition for the MRL series.
I'm guessing you know of a car with some period racing history then Mike? |
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12 Jan 2013, 19:19 (Ref:3188271) | #10 | ||
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IIRC Mike, you are something of a 205 expert........
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12 Jan 2013, 21:10 (Ref:3188303) | #11 | ||
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Hardly think expert, but knew my way round them in 80s! I've got one in workshop right now, stripped to bare shell, but it's a LHD French spec 1294cc Rallye. Bought back memories and got me thinking, though.
Sadly James I don't know of a car with period race history, and would be surprised if such an animal exists now. Would be great to be proved wrong though..... |
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12 Jan 2013, 21:53 (Ref:3188320) | #12 | ||
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A 309 GTi would be a great car for the 360 6 hours - a bit more stable than a 205 over a long stint. Loved my road car.
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12 Jan 2013, 23:38 (Ref:3188366) | #13 | ||
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I wonder about the car Mikael Sundstrom used in a couple of 1986 BTCC rounds though- it was one of the Peugeot Talbot UK Group A rally cars, as driven by Louise Aitken-Walker and others in 1985/6- http://www.flickr.com/photos/16788879@N02/5104907817/ Of course, being a rally car, if any of them do survive, what are the odds they're still in the original shell? |
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13 Jan 2013, 06:33 (Ref:3188436) | #14 | |||
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Agree Andy about 309, with added advantage of standard power steering- which is useful if using a plate LSD!! |
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22 Oct 2015, 15:05 (Ref:3584763) | #15 | ||||
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The Roger Albert Clark Rally Club are going to run an asphalt historic rally series next year. Historic Rallying Category 4 is 1981 up to the end of 1985...... Just day dreaming........ |
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27 Oct 2015, 06:56 (Ref:3585886) | #16 | ||||
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Just found the following on the "Rallye-info" web site. Clearly written by an "enthusiast" and perhaps not very objective but interesting anyway. I doubt any of us would swap an E30m3 for a 309(!) but a 309 might make an interesting "cheap" project if you can find one: "The less obvious reason was that the 309 should have been a better performer in groupA than the 205! Isn't the 309 bigger and heavier? Exactly! The 205, like so many French cars, is a nippy, crisp, oversteering FWD. The 205 however has one little disadvantage. As light and short as it is and with engine, transmission and drive all located at the front, it is a very front heavy car. The 205 rear end could occasionally become very nervous over bumps or under heavy braking. The 309 has a slightly bigger rear axle, giving the car a wider rear track and a longer wheelbase, also handy for a more settled ride at speed. Further, surprisingly the groupA 309 GTI weights only 20kg (50kg in groupN) more than the 205 and all of that added weight is in the rear end design, behind the rear axle. Hence, the 309 is a more settled and confidence boosting car than the 205. Therefore it had slightly more potential.... ....... The first car to give the Opel Kadett GSI 16v a run for its money in the 16v real-hot hatch category therefore was indeed the Peugeot 309, that in 1990 was launched as a limited edition 309 GTI16. The GTI16 delivers 160BHP and is much lighter and more nippy than the notoriously understeering Kadett GSI 16v. This was a time when FWD cars had it ever harder to compete for overall results in WRC events, but the 309 GTI16 was an ultra exciting car nevertheless. If you compare a road going Peugeot 309 GTI16 to a BMW M3 of that time, the 309 is 270kg lighter but is only 35BHP down in power! - Work out power to weight ratios from this and the unbelievable becomes obvious: the 309 beats the M3!" Last edited by andy97; 27 Oct 2015 at 07:02. |
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3 Nov 2015, 12:31 (Ref:3587787) | #17 | ||
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309 GTi Group A only ran the 8valve engine which was the real handicap.
If it had been homolgated to race with the 16 valve unit, it may have been a different story. |
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3 Nov 2015, 13:05 (Ref:3587801) | #18 | ||
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3 Nov 2015, 13:10 (Ref:3587805) | #19 | ||
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