Group A Holden Commodores in Europe

[anthony81901]

The 88 Great Race annual states ‘Rogers had commissioned Les Small to build two all-new cars for him at his own expense’, not to say this may be incorrect. Both cars were entered by the same entrant at Winton in 89, ICL Racing Pty Ltd, and Les Small was team manager for the Grice car in 88 & 89.

[rdmdog]

I don't know if this one has scored a pic in here yet?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...ool-379330@N23

[Al Weyman]

Wrong car, wrong disipline I would say, what a waste!

[KA]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

I don't know if this one has scored a pic in here yet?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7502634...ool-379330@N23

Yes, the CarGlass Team's rallycross VL, raced from about 1989-92- it turns up quite a few times through the thread, also in 'Camel' yellow IIRC.
I've got another pic of it on my Flickr account, showing it with the full 'Walkinshaw' bodykit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75026346@N00/4152501031/

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Wrong car, wrong disipline I would say, what a waste!

Usually went fairly well- problem was, much like touring cars, by 1988/9 you really needed an RS500 to win in Div 1 Group A rallycross..

[racer69]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

The 88 Great Race annual states ‘Rogers had commissioned Les Small to build two all-new cars for him at his own expense’, not to say this may be incorrect. Both cars were entered by the same entrant at Winton in 89, ICL Racing Pty Ltd, and Les Small was team manager for the Grice car in 88 & 89.

Auto Action also states in the leadup to Bathurst 1988, during the to-ing and fro-ing as to whether Grice would race a Les Small Commodore, TWR Commodore, Nissan Skyline or nothing at Bathurst that year, that if Grice was unable to secure the funds to run the Les Small #2 Commodore (or did a deal elsewhere), that the car would go to Bathurst anyway as the Rogers/Andretti spare.

Wasn't the #2 car entered originally on the first entry list draft for Rogers/Andretti under ICL Racing (along with #33 for the same line-up)?

[anthony81901]

In the initial entry list was #43 for Rogers/Andretti, then #2 for Grice/TBA and ultimately #2 for Grice/Percy.

[HDT423]

Originally Posted by racerVK

I am trying to track down how many commodore went to the UK and Europe in the 80s and the history on any of these cars or where are they now. I may be interested in Buying one as well. Any help would be great

Hi racer VK , I own one of TWR commodores raced in Europe. email me if interested norman@onlinelabourhire.com.au

[rdmdog]

Hey Norm, I think we would all like to hear the story!

[Al Weyman]

Some good footage from a following car of the ex-Brock Commadore that raced in the ModProds back in 95 here. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...od_Cadwell.flv

[chunterer]

That's decent footage!! The Commodore blasts away on the straight but the Capri gains around the rest of the lap!!

By the way HDT423, can you give us some more info about that TWR car please?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Found in the 28 November '91 Autosport classifieds - Chris Maries selling an ex-Grice ETC Commodore. Picture is of the Thundersaloon car, complete with Dupont logo. 5-speed box, not a 4-speed as Al said Pete Barnes car had (so the '86 Cleland Woodman TT car, by elimination?).
For sale by seperate negotiation are a pair of TWR full race engines.

So the timeline ('86 to '96) for this car seems to be Grice - O'Brien - Amhren - Maries - Mick Philips - Alan Walters.

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Found in the 28 November '91 Autosport classifieds - Chris Maries selling an ex-Grice ETC Commodore. Picture is of the Thundersaloon car, complete with Dupont logo. 5-speed box, not a 4-speed as Al said Pete Barnes car had (so the '86 Cleland Woodman TT car, by elimination?).
For sale by seperate negotiation are a pair of TWR full race engines.

So the timeline ('86 to '96) for this car seems to be Grice - O'Brien - Amhren - Maries - Mick Philips - Alan Walters.

Thanks Tim,

So from Alan Walters???????

[KA]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Found in the 28 November '91 Autosport classifieds - Chris Maries selling an ex-Grice ETC Commodore. Picture is of the Thundersaloon car, complete with Dupont logo. 5-speed box, not a 4-speed as Al said Pete Barnes car had (so the '86 Cleland Woodman TT car, by elimination?).
For sale by seperate negotiation are a pair of TWR full race engines.

So the timeline ('86 to '96) for this car seems to be Grice - O'Brien - Amhren - Maries - Mick Philips - Alan Walters.

Thanks Tim- that fits another piece into the jigsaw

I'm still stumped by the Brock/HDT/Mobil cars used in Europe in '86, one of which was used by Cleland/Woodman at the TT.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-03-005.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-03-006.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ADD/xv5775.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ADD/xv5773.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...D/xv5774-1.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ADD/xv5778.jpg

There's an Autosport ad in late '86 (October-ish maybe?) selling one or both of these- I don't recall. The ad (a fairly substantial half-page job with a pic of one of the cars) has HDT's address in Australia, but IIRC the contact numbers given are for Bill Cleland at GMDS and Tony Fall at Opel in Russelsheim- I'll dig it out later and check the details

Did we ever establish which two Brock/HDT Commodores were used for the European races, and when (if?) they returned to Australia?
There's some discussion of chassis numbers etc here
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=563

[KA]

The advert was in the Autosport issue for 23rd October 1986. It's about half a page, illustrated with a shot of the Brock/Moffatt car leading a Bastos Rover and Mike Newman's 635- the location looks like Goddards at Donington

It reads:

For sale
Group A Holden Commodore
One of two Brock/Moffatt Mobil Holden Dealer Team race cars ex-Spa 24 hours event, August 1986
Price £45,000, spares negotiable
The car is eligible for 1987 RAC Saloon Car Championship

Interested parties should contact Bill Clelland on 0721 xxxxx (Day) or Tony Fall, Opel Sport Relations, Russelsheim (D) 6142-xxxxxx

HDT Racing, 35 Bertie Street, Port Melbourne 3207 Victoria Australia

So, a few questions come to mind- which car was it (presmably the one used at the TT a few weeks earlier), was it still in Europe, and who bought it? Was there any similar advertisement in the Australian press about the same time?

[Al Weyman]

I may have got the 4 speed box wrong to be honest.

[chunterer]

My last '87 BTCC thread post is actually more relevent to here I suspect!

I'm thinking that maybe TWR either bought ot leased the 86 TT Commodore from Brock via Cleland/Fall to use as their '87 test hack.....

[Alfie72]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I may have got the 4 speed box wrong to be honest.

Al - If it was using the Holllinger box as O'Brien did in 87 then it was a 5-speed using Hewland gears from which of their boxes I cannot remember. It also used a standard Ford 9" diff. which made final drive selection fairly easy.

The contact details for both Clelands and Tony Fall make sense because remember that Holden was part of GM and the Dealer Team was managing Vauxhall/GM motorsport money so that fits. Although it still wrankles that we were never allowed any of it!

[Alfie72]

Sorry double keyed!

[KA]

Originally Posted by Alfie72

Al - If it was using the Holllinger box as O'Brien did in 87 then it was a 5-speed using Hewland gears from which of their boxes I cannot remember. It also used a standard Ford 9" diff. which made final drive selection fairly easy.

The contact details for both Clelands and Tony Fall make sense because remember that Holden was part of GM and the Dealer Team was managing Vauxhall/GM motorsport money so that fits. Although it still wrankles that we were never allowed any of it!

From memory, were the Brock cars raced in Europe in '86 based in Germany, or at GMDS in the UK?

[KA]

Probably worth copying this over to this thread from the 1987 BTCC thread, as it's equally relvant here- the TWR 1987 British GP support/Nurburgring WTCC Commodore entry saga, as reported in Autosport.

The article is headlined 'What's Tom up to now?' and reads:

As we suggested last week, Tom Walkinshaw has declared his intention to enter one of his VL-spec Holden Commodores in the Dunlop BTCC event supporting this weekend's GP at Silverstone. Walkinshaw and his crew took a second day trip to Snetterton on Monday to give the car further running time.
A darker rumour, however, suggests that Tom's GP entry is an elaborate double bluff, and that one of the 4.9 litre Commodore will actually turn up at the Nurbrgring this weekend, for the fourth round of the FIA World Touring Car Championship. By the time you read this, we should know for certain....'
(Autosport 9 July 1987)

The pic illustrating the article is interesting- it doesn't show the blue/yellow 'Herbie Clips' VL, but a plain white (or at least light-coloured- it's a b/w pic) VK with no signwriting other than a TWR sticker on the sunstrip. The car appears to have additional brake ducts or similar cut into the front spoiler- there seem to be two round holes outboard of the rectangular intake slot in the VK front spoiler.
The pic caption is 'A Walkinshaw Holden Commodore is due to appear this weekend- but where?'

There's also a short Nurburgring WTCC preview piece on the same page which mentions 'a possibility, it seems, that 'TWR might appear with one of its Holden Commodores'

The outline of the GP support entry in the GP Preview supplement issued with the magazine mentions a TWR Rover entry for Jeff Allam, but no TWR Commodore- it presumably went to press before the actual magazine, so missed the latest changes to the GP support entry- there were a few reported in the mag

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

From memory, were the Brock cars raced in Europe in '86 based in Germany, or at GMDS in the UK?

The MHDT cars were based at Russelheim I think?

Only Grice's Roadways ncar was here, at Dockings premises?

[racer69]

I'm not near my books at the moment, but the MHDT definatly had a relationship with Opel & Tony Fall, including the use of their Transporter (i recall a pic of the HDT transporter from one of the rounds, in Opel yellow/white/black)

[Alfie72]

As has been said, there was a formal link between HDT and Opel/GM Europe and so basing oneself in Europe would have made sense.

Grice and later on Moffat stayed at Dockings' because of more basic reasons - mateship! Grice/Harrington/Roadways were all Melbourne oriented and Moffat/Webb were also big pals of Alan's.

It was certainly a privilege to work there and see how the man operated. (Sorry off-thread I know, but I'm sure you'll understand)

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by KA

as reported in Autosport.

The article is headlined 'What's Tom up to now?' and reads:

As we suggested last week, Tom Walkinshaw has declared his intention to enter one of his VL-spec Holden Commodores in the Dunlop BTCC event supporting this weekend's GP at Silverstone. Walkinshaw and his crew took a second day trip to Snetterton on Monday to give the car further running time.
A darker rumour, however, suggests that Tom's GP entry is an elaborate double bluff, and that one of the 4.9 litre Commodore will actually turn up at the Nurbrgring this weekend, for the fourth round of the FIA World Touring Car Championship. By the time you read this, we should know for certain....'
(Autosport 9 July 1987)

There's also a short Nurburgring WTCC preview piece on the same page which mentions 'a possibility, it seems, that 'TWR might appear with one of its Holden Commodores'

Whih Nurburgring circuit was used for the 1987 WTCC round?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Whih Nurburgring circuit was used for the 1987 WTCC round?

the 'new' Nurburgring was used.

The last time the Nordschleife hosted an international touring car race was an ETCC round in 1983
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_AEZuImMx4