Group A Holden Commodores in Europe

[Gripper]

I love these group A threads. I went to Spa for the 24 hour touring car race in 1986 and saw the Holdens, Rovers, XR4ti's and RAS Volvos, not to mention 635's and a whole load more. I was lucky to source a ticket via Ron Dixon (Dickson) as I knew his sister who was in the UK at the time.

I think that was the last year of proper road based cars as after that it all went 2 ltr turbo cosworths etc and was far less enjoyable.

[Amaroo Park]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

#10 from Bathurst '87 was converted to TWR injected spec and raced by motor racing journalist Chris Lambden in 1989 in Baurepaire's colours. Car is now owned by well known Australian collector David Bowden and has been completely restored to it's '87 Bathurst spec.

Unfortunatly it hasn't been the most acurate restoration ever completed

[Amaroo Park]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I believe the #20 from Bathurst '88 was also the winning #16 from Bathurst 1990. I'm told that car is now completely restored to it's 1990 Bathurst spec. and in the hands of a collector. I can't think of a car I want more in the world.

According to a previous issue of Australian Muscle Car Magazine it is indeed car 20 from Bathurst 88 when Walkinshaw thought he would show Perkins how to build a Commodore, wasnt until the car was Australinaised that it became successful

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by KA

1986
Grice/Roadways- 1 car for most or all of the ETCC season, shared with Graeme Bailey, later with Michel Delcourt, Mark Galvin, David Kennedy etc.
Car sold to Clive Faine/Linden Racing/Mike O'Brien for 1987 BTCC

1987

Mike O'Brien/Linden Racing- ex-Grice VK run in the BTCC by Alan Docking Racing. Subsequently seems to have been sold on (1988/9?), possibly to Chris Maries.

Where did it go after that?

Thanks KA,

So no one knows where the ex-O'Brien VK went?

Was Chris Maries UK based or Europe? Any clues??

[anthony81901]

The VL raced by HDT at Spa in 87 was the team's first VL. It had been debuted by Brock at the Surfers Paradise round of the ATCC in May 87 and he raced it until the end of the series, before it was freighted to Spa. Brock had debuted a 2nd VL at the Oran Park 250 in Aug 87.

With the original VL out of Australia, one of the VKs that had been used earlier in the year was converted to a VL for Neil Crompton and Jon Crooke to race at Oran Park and Sandown. The Spa VL had returned by Bathurst and was entered as the ultimately victorious #10. It was sold to Chris Lambden and upgraded to TWR specs debuting at Bathurst 88.

For Bathurst 88 TWR shipped out a VL, this may or may not have been the #46 car from the Silverstone TT, but after retiring from the race with suspension failure was stored at HSV, before being reactivated as the #16 car for the 90 enduros. It wasn't chassis TWR022 (see page 5 of this thread).

Allan Grice was always seen as a hard but fair driver. I think it was more that historically he had been the privateer taking on the factory and now he had joined the factory.

[Nivola]

Amaroo Park you are correct with the crap resto job.

I know it aint easy to gain access to period parts.

But the livery is the worst thing on the car as it is over 50% wrong.

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Nivola

Amaroo Park you are correct with the crap resto job.

I know it aint easy to gain access to period parts.

But the livery is the worst thing on the car as it is over 50% wrong.

Nivola,

Are you taking over the "Poisened Challice".

How dare you question any of the Bowden Collection regarding history, livery, provinence, "what we say goes" mandate.

I'm lost for words.......

[Nivola]

So where is the Tokico rx7?

HMMMM it was a Moffat Mazda for a few months!

I dont need to say anymore.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Thanks KA,

So no one knows where the ex-O'Brien VK went?

Was Chris Maries UK based or Europe? Any clues??

Chris Maries ran an ex-Grice Commodore in UK Thundersaloons in '91, partnered by Graham Nash for the early season, then a succession of different co-drivers later on. AFAIK Maries is UK-based, still runs a kit-car in a Northern championship here.

I can't find info on when he bought the car, or who from, just that it was ex-Grice. It's talked of as being under-developed for the company it was trying to keep in Thundersaloons - over-weight and under-tyred. Engine was listed as 4999cc in registration list, and in the only 2 photos I can find it appears to be a VK, or at least running with VK front lights.

It doesn't seem to have re-appeared in '92, and I have no records after that.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Chris Maries ran an ex-Grice Commodore in UK Thundersaloons in '91, partnered by Graham Nash for the early season, then a succession of different co-drivers later on. AFAIK Maries is UK-based, still runs a kit-car in a Northern championship here.

I saw it in a Northern Sports/Saloon race at the Brit F2 round on Good Friday 1992 IIRC. Was white or beige, with either mauve or purple, or orange colouring on it somewhere.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

I can't find info on when he bought the car, or who from, just that it was ex-Grice. It's talked of as being under-developed for the company it was trying to keep in Thundersaloons - over-weight and under-tyred. Engine was listed as 4999cc in registration list, and in the only 2 photos I can find it appears to be a VK, or at least running with VK front lights.

That sounds a fairly probably outcome for running a Group A car against the 'big guns' at the front of the average Thundersaloon grid of the period- apart from being overweight and undertyred as you say, it would have been giving away a fair amount of horsepower to the big V8s or Cosworth turbos at the front of the pack

[Henry]

Originally Posted by terrier1102

...i remember Grice took a dislike to Walkinshaw and at Monza we were in the Pits filming the driver changeovers, Walkinshaw had been chased by grice for many laps and when he came in "I think?" to let Percy takeover he got out the car and I would say he was looking very anxious, almost frightened, he explained; it seems that whilst flat out on the back straight Grice had been ramming the Rover and pushing it along lap after lap, a little unsettling at 150+ mph, Walkinshaw couldn't underdstand it but you could tell grice was really enjoying himself.

Gricey found within himself, a number of reasons not to get along with Walkinshaw in Europe in 1986, which is interesting, as Gricey had been most helpful to TW on Tom's first visit to Mt Panorama, sitting with him to point out the quick bits (although it'd be like AG to keep the real fast bits a secret too...).

In interviews here, AG said he had a couple of run-ins with TWR during 1986... he says that he was persistently pushed off-track by the second and third string Vitesses, who were tailgunning for TW... until he gave them a sizeable reef in the door after deciding not to be pushed around anymore... Winston apparently had to be most persuasive about the concept of recruiting Grice for the works team in 1990... Percy had also (unsuccessfully) put Larry Perkins forwards as the best candidate to carry forth the HRT banner into 1990...

[racer69]

This post here
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=2130

seems to indicate further that the O'Brien VL from 1988 wasn't the ex-Grice VK

[scooby12]

Hi Guys

i can confirm that chris maries did buy the alan grice vk from a guy who use to race in the barc nw sports saloons, (can't remember is name but he raced a nissan 240rs before the holden).

this i know because i worked on it, been part of the team also graham nash raced it with chris in the thundersaloons in 1991 ish plus other guest drivers.

and then was sold on to phil rose who raced it in the barc nw sport saloons for a year i think. who then sold it on to ric woods .

thats all i can't remember hope it helps a bit

cheers

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by scooby12

Hi Guys

i can confirm that chris maries did buy the alan grice vk from a guy who use to race in the barc nw sports saloons, (can't remember is name but he raced a nissan 240rs before the holden).

this i know because i worked on it, been part of the team also graham nash raced it with chris in the thundersaloons in 1991 ish plus other guest drivers.

and then was sold on to phil rose who raced it in the barc nw sport saloons for a year i think. who then sold it on to ric woods .

thats all i can't remember hope it helps a bit

cheers

Was the guy who raced the 240RS, and had the VK before you guys, a bloke called Brian Litherland (or similar surname)?

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by scooby12

Hi Guys

i can confirm that chris maries did buy the alan grice vk from a guy who use to race in the barc nw sports saloons, (can't remember is name but he raced a nissan 240rs before the holden).

this i know because i worked on it, been part of the team also graham nash raced it with chris in the thundersaloons in 1991 ish plus other guest drivers.

and then was sold on to phil rose who raced it in the barc nw sport saloons for a year i think. who then sold it on to ric woods .

thats all i can't remember hope it helps a bit

cheers

Thanks Scooby,

Ric Woods has been mentioned on this thread before!

Any idea where his is contactable?

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by Nivola

So where is the Tokico rx7?

HMMMM it was a Moffat Mazda for a few months!

I dont need to say anymore.

I always thought there was one too many Peter Styvusant Moffat RX7's around. Now I know that the extra one is located in a shed on a farm in Qld.

[Bown]

Originally Posted by jd yort

I always thought there was one too many Peter Styvusant Moffat RX7's around. Now I know that the extra one is located in a shed on a farm in Qld.

The Brock 87 Spa/ Bathurst winning VL is as we bought it. Whoever said it was perfectly restored isn't one of us. The last owners, who are good honest people, did the resto, and did the best they could with what they had. We have finally sourced the correct wheels however, (thanks for the help Group C/A guys!!). Change the Wheels, some aspects of the livery and those bloody VN heads, then she's a good thing. The Tokico RX7 is getting put back to its correct livery and the chaps who thought it would be a clever idea to dodgy it up to be a Moffat RX7 are in for a hell of a time. And they now know it too. Idiots.

We all know how much I hate people trying to sell cars like that, don't we CamaroZ How much did you want for your Commodore again? I honestly forget?!

With the exception of yourself Rowan Harmon/CamaroZ/Chuck and all the other names you go under, I don't be expect anyone else to go around making subversive stabs at us. If you have any queries about any of our cars, or just wan't to talk Group C/A. Please call me on 0438 269938, or email me on chris@bowdensown.com.au I'm really NOT a fan of "slugging it out online" so please call or email me.

It turns out a few people in the RX7 fraternity new that the car was incorrect, from right back in the early 1990's, but "didn't want to hurt our feelings"?? Bugger that, I would rather know please!

Anyhoo, I'm a bit off topic here, just saw a few stabs and felt compelled, you know how it is Back to the Euro Group A's. Makes for great reading about an amazing era.

Cheers & best regards, Chris Bowden.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Thanks Scooby,

Ric Woods has been mentioned on this thread before!

Any idea where his is contactable?

Ric Wood Motorsport: http://www.ricwood.com/holden.html

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by Bown

The Brock 87 Spa/ Bathurst winning VL is as we bought it. Whoever said it was perfectly restored isn't one of us. The last owners, who are good honest people, did the resto, and did the best they could with what they had. We have finally sourced the correct wheels however, (thanks for the help Group C/A guys!!). Change the Wheels, some aspects of the livery and those bloody VN heads, then she's a good thing. The Tokico RX7 is getting put back to its correct livery and the chaps who thought it would be a clever idea to dodgy it up to be a Moffat RX7 are in for a hell of a time. And they now know it too. Idiots.

We all know how much I hate people trying to sell cars like that, don't we CamaroZ How much did you want for your Commodore again? I honestly forget?!

With the exception of yourself Rowan Harmon/CamaroZ/Chuck and all the other names you go under, I don't be expect anyone else to go around making subversive stabs at us. If you have any queries about any of our cars, or just wan't to talk Group C/A. Please call me on 0438 269938, or email me on chris@bowdensown.com.au I'm really NOT a fan of "slugging it out online" so please call or email me.

It turns out a few people in the RX7 fraternity new that the car was incorrect, from right back in the early 1990's, but "didn't want to hurt our feelings"?? Bugger that, I would rather know please!

Anyhoo, I'm a bit off topic here, just saw a few stabs and felt compelled, you know how it is Back to the Euro Group A's. Makes for great reading about an amazing era.

Cheers & best regards, Chris Bowden.

Not my post Chris! Spelling is Harman! Camaroz on ten-tenths. Chuck on bc.com and bertiestreet.com.

Re the Commodore, not for sale until the CoD is through.

Didn't know about the RX7!!!!!!!! That changes things.

My post (warning) in reply to "nivola" has been proven by your post.

All the best, Camaroz.

[rdmdog]

Bit of info that might fuel the backdating your Walkinshaw (VL Injected) Group A to Brock (Carby'd) , I think that the Lansvasle boys did it at one stage, mainly due to the ease of tuning a Carby'd V8 compared to an Injected one in the late '80s. As mentioned earlier in this thread, at that time in Australia it was a bit of a new science. Definately the car that was sold to Glenn Mason was fitted with a carby & Brock body kit, and came with most of what was needed to update it.

[rdmdog]

A photo in the Muscle Car Spa '87 story shows the Dutch "Playboy" can and the Delcourt "Zippo" car, mentions the Delcourt car is ex-Roadways. Both Carby VL's at that time

[rdmdog]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

I believe that Allan Grice's Les Small built 87 car was sold by Roadways Racing to TWR and shipped to the UK for use in developing the fuel injected car.

TWR ran a VL at the Nurburgring in 87 for Walkinshaw & Allam.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5812/twrvl87nn7.jpg

TWR built at least 2 VLs in the UK to the fuel injected spec, possibly existing cars updated. One was air freighted out for the Bathurst 88 for Walkinshaw and Allam to drive. The car had major suspension failure after 5 laps, TWR having ignored local advice and run light weight components.

It was planned to use this and chassis TWR022 which was shipped to Australia in 89 as a 2 car attack on the ATCC by the Holden Racing Team. But Holden realising they would suffer a mauling at the hands of the Sierras decided to sit the year out.

For the end of year enduros Holden contracted out the running of HRT to Larry Perkins, and TWR022 was refreshed by Perkins becoming the #7 car.

The Bathurst 88 car remained at HSV in Melbourne until revived for the 90 enduros, going onto to score a historic victory at Bathurst against the Sierras and GTR. It ended up back at TWR in the UK.

I was under impression that the 1990 winning car was back at HRT here?

Attached is a photo from an early 1990's Holden PR thing as the representation of Holden Racing from 1980 to 1990, I guess most other photos of successful Holdens at the time were of Brock cars!

[rdmdog]

Found a photo of 2 TWR Carby VL's, supposedly from Monza. Photo was in July 17 1987 Auto Action, Second (Colour) Photo is from the front cover of July 31 1987 Auto Action.

[anthony81901]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

Bit of info that might fuel the backdating your Walkinshaw (VL Injected) Group A to Brock (Carby'd) , I think that the Lansvasle boys did it at one stage, mainly due to the ease of tuning a Carby'd V8 compared to an Injected one in the late '80s. As mentioned earlier in this thread, at that time in Australia it was a bit of a new science. Definately the car that was sold to Glenn Mason was fitted with a carby & Brock body kit, and came with most of what was needed to update it.

The Lansvale team upgraded their VL to HSV specs for Bathurst 88, before converting it back to car to Brock specs for 89 as mentioned. They ran a HSV spec VL at Bathurst in 90, but this was an ex Perkins car they purchased from Lyndon Reithmuller. The Lansvale team sold the original VL to Laurie Donaher who ran it in Brock specs at Bathurst in 91. It was sold to Glenn Mason, by Bathurst 94 it had been converted back to HSV specs.