[LM24] Prototypes at Le Mans

[ss_collins]

Is there really a future for P1 (or even P2)? Manufacturers seem to prefer GTS and Porsche appear to want to go P2. So what is going to happen in 2007. Does LM need p1? does it need prototypes at all?

discuss...

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Is there really a future for P1 (or even P2)? Manufacturers seem to prefer GTS and Porsche appear to want to go P2. So what is going to happen in 2007. Does LM need p1? does it need prototypes at all?

discuss...

you already posted on this topic in another thread and discussion about your views was made in that thread...

[TerryC]

Of course, there'll still be a future with our beloved prototypes. Le Mans just isn't Le Mans without them.

[Spiteful]

collings you say such horrible things


A while ago I read something about Porsche going LMP1 for 2006, but not confirmed
Any news about that?
That porsche and a new audi in p1 would be great.
But even if that doesn't work out I think lmp2 will be interesting enough in the near future

[Spiteful]

right you were doing that article...
Can you tell us some more about that, were are you publishing it, how serious is it
Could you at least give us more insight in your views already, other than "I really don't think there's a future for lmp"

[ss_collins]

you already posted on this topic in another thread and discussion about your views was made in that thread...

yes but I thought is should have its own topic. Don't get me wrong I love prototypes... but is there really a future for them - I'm asking the questions - as its stands to me it seems the answer is no...

but persuade me...

As for where - not telling yet.

[Graham Goodwin]

The answer is - yes there is and there are programmes underway that will prove that this is the case.

Transition really is the name of the game at the moment

[PRF]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

The answer is - yes there is and there are programmes underway that will prove that this is the case.

Transition really is the name of the game at the moment

Personally I much prefer Prototypes to GTS/GT class cars. I sincerely hope they have a future.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Is there really a future for P1 (or even P2)? Manufacturers seem to prefer GTS and Porsche appear to want to go P2. So what is going to happen in 2007. Does LM need p1? does it need prototypes at all?

discuss...

As a well informed member of the motoring press with connections I believe to no less a weekly publication than Motoring News, I find your suggestion that the prototype era at Le Mans will be all but dead within the next couple of years quite astounding. MN (and just about every other motorsport publication with an interest in sportscar racing) seem to be publishing scoop articles regarding manufacturers future Le Mans plans in the prototype classes with almost indecent regularity at the moment. And there are a number of other whispers which, if they have reached me, should have reached you, which have yet to break cover.

How on earth have you reached this conclusion

[jhansen]

Take prototypes away from Le Mans and you'd see the race's atmosphere dramatically change. I may be wrong, but I think the race would lose some of its support if it became an all GT affair. Couple that with the fact that the ACO continues to bolster the LMP classes over the GT classes and you find the prototypes are here to stay.

[Fab]

As long as the 24 hours of Le Mans are ruled by ACO, there will be prototypes. For the worst and for the best. Prototypes are the basis of endurance as ACO thinks it should be, from the start in 1923.

[Nordic]

The LMP's 1 & 2 have a future, they offer the somthing different & dramatic to any grid.
True the numbers have sufferd in recent years, but that is aways the case with any type of GT racing. GT1 & 2 have also suffered in the past and seem to have bounced back, it may be that they are coming to the peak of their cycle if costs contine to sprial in the GT1 class.

We already know Audi will be back with a new car, Porsche we have read are on the verge, Lola have stated the intention to Built new cars, Courage and plenty of others also pressing ahead with new designs, right now it is looking pretty good I would say.

[jhansen]

quote from ss_collins: "and Porsche appear to want to go P2."

Just picked up on something. Yes the news is that Porsche will debut a LMP2 at Petit Le Mans in 2005. But the news also says that Porsche will debut a LMP1 in 2006. As mentioned Audi will bring out a new LMP1 car and several others are pushing forward with hybrids and new designs.

There is a future for both LMP1 and LMP2.

[JAG]

May as well just copy and paste my post from another topic:-

In 2006 LMP1 will be experincing the same kind of boom we are currenty seeing in LMP2, with all of the usual suspects producing there new customer LMP1 chassis, plus Audi and at least two other major manufactuers entering.

Current LMP2 teams will also be gathering experience to graduate to LMP1 in the coming years.

Finally prototypes have a sensible class structure and the right series, the LMES, to attract the teams.

[gi_gav]

ss_collins, I think you'd better lay out your argument before you get anyone else's back up!

I think each class will get stronger and better defined:

LMP1: works entries vs. strong privateers, healthy interest from manufacturers but not with so much money that it destroys the field.

LMP2: teams stepping up from GTs to run quick, reliable, affordable customer LMPs from Porsche, Lola, Courage etc.

GT1: works entries from manufacturers keen to see a direct link between product and race car. Backup up by wealthy private teams running older cars (C5R, 550 etc)

GT2: Same as it ever was, but with potential manufacturer entry (Nissan?)

Each is strong enough, and none are a threat to P1 as the top class, (even GT1 with its manufacturers) given that they all serve different purposes.

This class differentiation is only aided by the continued growth of the LMES.

[Kicking-back]

ss is asking questions rather than making a conclusion, as I read it.

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by gi_gav

I think each class will get stronger and better defined:

LMP1: works entries vs. strong privateers, healthy interest from manufacturers but not with so much money that it destroys the field.

LMP2: teams stepping up from GTs to run quick, reliable, affordable customer LMPs from Porsche, Lola, Courage etc.

GT1: works entries from manufacturers keen to see a direct link between product and race car. Backup up by wealthy private teams running older cars (C5R, 550 etc)

GT2: Same as it ever was, but with potential manufacturer entry

Each is strong enough, and none are a threat to P1 as the top class, (even GT1 with its manufacturers) given that they all serve different purposes.

I would agree with you on most of that Gav, expect for GT2 I think that this should be a class for the smaller manufacturer's such as TVR, Morgan, Spyker and Molser.

I would also agree with Graham that we are transition at the momment, we know that Audi have a new car on drawing board and if the rummours are ture Porsche, Nissan and Mazda are looking to come back.

[gi_gav]

KB, elsewhere Sam was suggesting that LMP1 will be finished by 2007, which is what seems to have a few people gently irritated...

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by gi_gav

KB, elsewhere Sam was suggesting that LMP1 will be finished by 2007, which is what seems to have a few people gently irritated...

exactly, he was definitely saying he believed LMP1 would be gone by 2006... which is about as likely as GARRA adopting ACO rules for 2006 in my mind.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

The answer is - yes there is and there are programmes underway that will prove that this is the case.

Transition really is the name of the game at the moment

Great article on DSC by Graham highlighting the amazing transformation of the LMP2 class. The future looks very, very bright.....

[Graham Goodwin]

And more to come even since I wrote that - 2 days ago!!

[lj79]

Why is everyone so p**sed with SS_Collins?

Why not wait until his points are formalised as I am sure it is nothing personal...

As has been raised before - sometimes it appears, that unless forum posters indulge in a bout of mutual butt kissing, then contributors get slated.

[lj79]

Why not wait until his points are formalised as I am sure it is nothing personal to all the fans prototype racing.

There may well be projects on the go for this category, but we can all recall many "projects" in the history of prototype racing. Instantly I think of:

Alan Randall's Q8 XJR-14s 1992
Porsche LMP 2000
Nissan Imsa (****, remind me) V12 3.5ltr early 90's
March 92S

That's without trying. Am sure others will remember more as many a "project" / "plan" / "definite" has fallen by the wayside.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

And more to come even since I wrote that - 2 days ago!!

Can anyone shed any light on the manufactuer that is expected to enter a prototype in the ALMS later this year?

It was mentioned in a DSC article about the Porsche LMP2

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by lj79

Why not wait until his points are formalised as I am sure it is nothing personal to all the fans prototype racing.

There may well be projects on the go for this category, but we can all recall many "projects" in the history of prototype racing. Instantly I think of:

Alan Randall's Q8 XJR-14s 1992
Porsche LMP 2000
Nissan Imsa (****, remind me) V12 3.5ltr early 90's
March 92S

That's without trying. Am sure others will remember more as many a "project" / "plan" / "definite" has fallen by the wayside.

I read it as opinion - nothing wrong with that at all

There are of course plenty of programmes and projects that fell by the wayside - There are plenty of others though that came to fruition despite the sceptics.

I approach most new projects with a healthy dose of realism but i'm still enough of a fence hanging fan to get excited by the prospects of something new - And there's plenty out there that looks like seeing the light of day.