Griffin not in BTCC

Top Gear · 30 Nov 2003, 16:43 (Ref:799332)

Team Griffin is not cmpeting in BTCC in 04 it has decided instead to enter the new fomrula BMW series What going to happen to the 406s they got off VLR.

BootsOntheSide · 30 Nov 2003, 16:59 (Ref:799338)

The cars seem destined for the scrapheap. They were never likely to be competitive, especialyl with the influx of ETCC-spec cars this year. Griffin have now made very much the right choice, as they don't seem like a big enough organisation to be able to compete.

SPARK Msport · 30 Nov 2003, 18:02 (Ref:799382)

I'll buy the 406's off VLR for 50p...could be the most they might get for them now...

wurzel · 30 Nov 2003, 19:02 (Ref:799427)

Topgear,do you know when this announcement was made because there was nothing in autosport about this change of plan?

Jonny Apex · 30 Nov 2003, 19:15 (Ref:799444)

Wurzel, do you actually read everything you read/don't read in Autosport? There are other reliable sources of news, provided Top Gear's source is reliable ...

Top Gear · 30 Nov 2003, 19:36 (Ref:799472)

ITS was in Autosport in club Autosport in the back of the mag

**Craig** · 30 Nov 2003, 19:41 (Ref:799478)

There was a brief article in there, as Top Gear states, but it doesn't specifically say that Griffin are not going to step up to the BTCC. You can read it whichever way you want but I'd not be surprised to see the old Pugs out next year!

redshoes · 30 Nov 2003, 21:54 (Ref:799583)

Actually the Autosport story says Formula Renault not Formula BMW

Jamie P-E · 30 Nov 2003, 22:17 (Ref:799602)

is this another load of gossip. As far as I am aware they're in the BTCC for 2004

kmchow · 30 Nov 2003, 23:27 (Ref:799657)

I wonder how much Griffin paid for the 406s? How can they just scrap the cars? Surely, those 2 cars must have easily cost over 75K GBP???

**bella** · 1 Dec 2003, 00:49 (Ref:799708)

maybe they got them off the scrap heap in the first place.

**touringlegend** · 1 Dec 2003, 17:33 (Ref:800519)

I don't reckon the 406 gets a fair treatment on here!!

Ok they may not be the most nimble car on the grid, or the fastest but they're /were good enough to win a title..

Craner Curves · 1 Dec 2003, 20:46 (Ref:800666)

Which wouldn't have been theirs had their rival not been knocked out of 2 races at Donington.

SPARK Msport · 1 Dec 2003, 21:11 (Ref:800678)

I reckon the 406 Coupe has been the best looking BTCC car i've ever seen, i'll give VLR and Peugoet that but I think (like what everyone else is saying) it is getting that we bit old now and like what Dan said this year after racing the 307, the 406 is a `big` car, hard to handle, hard to find the right set up and small, tight tracks...etc
I'm sure we'd all love to see the 406's back, but they wouldnt win anything, abit like Minardi in F1, would you REALLY want to run them?
(Sorry Minardi!)

Jonny Apex · 1 Dec 2003, 23:00 (Ref:800799)

Quote:

Originally posted by Craner Curves
Which wouldn't have been theirs had their rival not been knocked out of 2 races at Donington.

Completely disagree with that. A season is made up of 20-odd races, not just the final two.

skypop · 3 Dec 2003, 19:31 (Ref:802948)

Quote:

Originally posted by Top Gear
Team Griffin is not cmpeting in BTCC in 04 it has decided instead to enter the new fomrula BMW series What going to happen to the 406s they got off VLR.

Personally I see them as a small concern, they have not set the field onfire in Clios. Sketchy results and frankly how they could source the funds to even consider expanding when similar ClioCup team Xcel who i add won 2 championship in the one make champioship has just shut its doors!!

The team Owner Julian Griffin frankly has no hope even if he did enter a Pug in the BTCC as he was always a backmarker. Add to that a car thats is old and underdeveloped they have no hope!

And by the sounds of it they have relised it before they risk the future of the team and there reputation!

At this stage i believe Formula Renault or BMW is out of their league..

ATF · 3 Dec 2003, 21:25 (Ref:803060)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonny Apex
Completely disagree with that. A season is made up of 20-odd races, not just the final two.

I agree. In the 2002 season, which car got the most independent wins? MG, Vauxhall or Peugeot?!

BootsOntheSide · 4 Dec 2003, 15:20 (Ref:803817)

They also had the only 2 experienced drivers, one a former champion the other an improving youngster, as well as a more developed car than the MG, and MG missed the first round. The cars themselves were well off the pace, and they only took half a season to make the 307 competitive at that level, even without works funding.

Jonny Apex · 6 Dec 2003, 11:30 (Ref:805454)

I think that's a little unfair on Barwell. Two most experienced (Chilton) drivers? Hardly, and those 307s had already had a year's development with Peugeot input from 2001.

My earlier point was that a driver or team can't really say "I lost the title at the last round". You lose or win a title over the course of the season. Every race you do counts.

Skypop: the Griffin team does have an excellent sponsor who wants to move up into BTCC, as well as keep the Clio Cup team alongside it. FBMW is not in the team's plans (TopGear read the story wrong as he/she did in claiming Griffin would not be in BTCC next year. It states that FRenault is a possibile expansion, but there's no mention of FBMW).

skypop · 6 Dec 2003, 12:39 (Ref:805476)

Yes in the Lloyds Group, though the team is in its Infancy.
The team only have limited experiance between all of the mechanics.
There is a load of differance between running a car out of the box, like the Clio or Formula Renault.

Touring cars require engineering and ongoing development!
IMHO the team will struggle if they were to enter!

They are unlickely to have assistance from VLR as they have there 307's and the formula BMW to run.

**bella** · 6 Dec 2003, 12:57 (Ref:805488)

skypop, i couldn't quite make out your point through all the cliches...

with the development i suppose it depends how much information vlr gave them with the cars. if they gave them all the set-up info, all they need is a couple of monkeys to put the correct bits on the car.

the fact they bought the 406 indicates to me they weren't planning to take that year as anything other than a learning year. that car's not really competitive any more, unless lap times have stayed static over the seasons, and i can't believe vauxhall have let that happen.

seems like a plan to me. learn how everything works and then go at it with some more up to date cars in the next few years.

in the end it just adds a few cars to the grid doesn't it?

skypop · 6 Dec 2003, 14:01 (Ref:805529)

Griffin should stick to clios untill they have some experience in playing at the top level.

Ever heard the saying "Walk before you can Run"

cos · 6 Dec 2003, 22:37 (Ref:805764)

Quote:

Originally posted by skypop
They are unlickely to have assistance from VLR as they have there 307's and the formula BMW to run.

Griffin seem to have a good relationship with VLR though: Marcus Thomas, one of their Clio drivers, is managed by Vic Lee, another of their drivers, Matt Allison, is managed by Tim Harvey who said, "The decision to place Matt in the Clio Cup is part of a long-term view which we hope will see him progress to the BTCC, potentially with Team Griffin Racing. I'll be helping Julian test his 406 Coupe touring car ahead of next season so this link-up seemed the obvious thing to do."

kmchow · 7 Dec 2003, 02:30 (Ref:805844)

Quote:

Originally posted by bella
if they gave them all the set-up info, all they need is a couple of monkeys to put the correct bits on the car.

I wonder how much of the setup info is useful? They were setup to cater to a different driver?

Quote:

seems like a plan to me. learn how everything works and then go at it with some more up to date cars in the next few years.

How much of the setup info is transferable to another make/model though? I guess something is better than nothing?

**bella** · 7 Dec 2003, 14:44 (Ref:806034)

none of the setup info is transferrable between models and makes of cars really. what i'm saying is just learn how the series works and then go at it properly with an up to date car.

setups are quite easily adjusted for different drivers though, you just have to have a good engineer who knows how to translate what the driver's saying into something useful.

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