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Old 23 Jun 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3746208)   #181
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Indeed, I am watching the American Trans-Am series seems to have three classes.

Trans-Am 1: Heavily sculpted Vipers, Corvettes, "Mustangs" with much more aerodynamic shape, & also Porsche cup cars for some reason (!?)

Trans-Am 2: The Camaros, Challengers and Mustangs with somewhat production shaped fibre-glass bodies, they seem to be more standardised.

Trans-Am 3: Production based muscle cars

Certainly it could be a good model for Supercars to follow. The Trans-Am 2 class seems to be the closest and most fun. The random mix of cars in Trans-Am 1 seems a bit strange. Trans-Am 3 is probably a bit like improved production or GT4.
Was referring to the TA2 australia link Chavez provided
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 10:03 (Ref:3746213)   #182
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GT3 v's Supercar v's SuperTouring- The Ultimate Thread

Costs have to come down regardless of the avenue pursued.

The day of having a number of 100k engines as spares is not sustainable with manufacturer dollars leaving the sport.

GT3 engines may be cheaper (they still look expensive) but their service costs are much better then a current Supercar engine.

I'm expecting Peckstar to roll in and dump all over this post purely because I mentioned GT3 but you can't hide the fact that costs as they stand are not sustainable. And I'm not suggesting that GT3 engine are the solution.

I can appreciate the fact that the top series in the land shouldn't have control engines. As a purist its not right and I'd love to see an all out horsepower war but the reality is this is just not sustainable.

Whatever happens next for this category has to be more cost effective. Gone are the days are manufacturers tipping in millions of dollars, Holden wouldn't put in anywhere as much as they used to. Ford don't put in anything and Nissan probably are looking at why have sunk tens of millions of dollars into the category with results that don't reflect that spend.

Costs pretty much have to be halved

Lap times aren't everything.
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 10:34 (Ref:3746220)   #183
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Even TCRs are $150k turn-key, and they are using basic stock block production engines.
It is interesting that VW nominally sold the Golf TCR for 85k UK pounds, which is near enough to 150k AUD - but they built only 20 so you can't buy one.

Given the Audi S3 TCR runs the same engine, I'm seriously not sure how Audi can justify the apparent $300k ask for it!

If you could run a road-relevant series with broad manufacturer support based around $150k cars then I think you have something interesting, perhaps if not for fans...
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 12:46 (Ref:3746234)   #184
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I can appreciate the fact that the top series in the land shouldn't have control engines.
Just put a stock block 7L Chevy LS in every car, worked in New Zealand (for a little while anyway).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9GW5WhJLnU

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It is interesting that VW nominally sold the Golf TCR for 85k UK pounds, which is near enough to 150k AUD - but they built only 20 so you can't buy one.
Thankfully you can get a JAS-racing Honda Civic Type R instead.
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 13:11 (Ref:3746239)   #185
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One season old Opel Astra TCR was circa £65K, that I saw.

TCR are apparently a little dirty at Audi for over-pricing the RS3, however Audi feels it's justified in build quality and safety features alone. Not to mention the after sales service you'd get.
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 13:12 (Ref:3746240)   #186
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Originally Posted by rich07 View Post
Costs have to come down regardless of the avenue pursued.

The day of having a number of 100k engines as spares is not sustainable with manufacturer dollars leaving the sport.

GT3 engines may be cheaper (they still look expensive) but their service costs are much better then a current Supercar engine.

You can't hide the fact that costs as they stand are not sustainable. And I'm not suggesting that GT3 engine are the solution.

I can appreciate the fact that the top series in the land shouldn't have control engines. As a purist its not right and I'd love to see an all out horsepower war but the reality is this is just not sustainable.

Whatever happens next for this category has to be more cost effective. Gone are the days are manufacturers tipping in millions of dollars, Holden wouldn't put in anywhere as much as they used to. Ford don't put in anything and Nissan probably are looking at why have sunk tens of millions of dollars into the category with results that don't reflect that spend.

Costs pretty much have to be halved
Good post.

just leave me out of it next time

Last edited by peckstar; 23 Jun 2017 at 13:25.
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 13:33 (Ref:3746244)   #187
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TCR are apparently a little dirty at Audi for over-pricing the RS3,
Indeed. The point of these classes is that they are supposed to be perform equally and be within a price cap, else the price and performance can run away like it did in GT3.
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Old 23 Jun 2017, 22:37 (Ref:3746318)   #188
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Indeed. The point of these classes is that they are supposed to be perform equally and be within a price cap, else the price and performance can run away like it did in GT3.
How do you stop it. Thats the nature of competitive production based racing. Its starts well but manufacturers dont like there brand losing so they build a better car, then the next brand builds a better car and so on. Like in your excample.

Last edited by peckstar; 23 Jun 2017 at 22:46.
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Old 24 Jun 2017, 18:48 (Ref:3746469)   #189
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
It is interesting that VW nominally sold the Golf TCR for 85k UK pounds, which is near enough to 150k AUD - but they built only 20 so you can't buy one.

Given the Audi S3 TCR runs the same engine, I'm seriously not sure how Audi can justify the apparent $300k ask for it!

If you could run a road-relevant series with broad manufacturer support based around $150k cars then I think you have something interesting, perhaps if not for fans...

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Peugeot Sport confirmed the pre-tax price of the car is 74,900 EUR, significantly below the TCR price cap of 130,000 EUR, with the latest top spec Audi RS 3 priced at 129,000 EUR, and the most popular SEAT León TCR sold for 110,000 EUR.
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2016...08-racing-cup/

130k Euro = 192k AUD

The Peugeot is developed for a one make series and has only a 1.6L engine instead of 2L engine so not fully TCR spec but in TCR Benelux it's competative.
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Old 25 Jun 2017, 00:29 (Ref:3746546)   #190
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130k Euro = 192k AUD
Nice Australia tax on the RS3 TCR from Audi there, at least $70k AUD overpriced.
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Old 25 Jun 2017, 01:19 (Ref:3746551)   #191
Umai Naa
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5-door Mini in the works, according to another thread on here.

Another car relephant to our market.
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Old 25 Jun 2017, 09:28 (Ref:3746576)   #192
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5-door Mini in the works, according to another thread on here.

Another car relephant to our market.
Yes, yes it is!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/339563/2...e-door-review/
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Old 25 Jun 2017, 10:19 (Ref:3746581)   #193
Umai Naa
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No, I meant a TCR machine.
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Old 26 Jun 2017, 08:04 (Ref:3746881)   #194
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Wonderful look here from the supposed top touring car class in the world:
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/tourin...-de-1796401059
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Old 26 Jun 2017, 08:15 (Ref:3746882)   #195
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WTCC is on death's nell anyway.
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