Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Jun 2017, 07:06 (Ref:3741531)   #61
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 15,134
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-star View Post
Hence why Supercar engines all have to have the same max power at given rev range?

So Supercar engines are...controlled?
Its different, in that motors can still be developed by the teams within some reference points, eg one similar to you have mentioned, along with some control parts. But teams can still develop the motor.

However they dont need to be developed if teams dont want, just teams would fall behind.

surely we are all grown up here and know the difference between the two
peckstar is online now  
__________________
Scott and Chaz 1-2 in 2017

well that's my hope
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 07:17 (Ref:3741533)   #62
rich07
Veteran
 
rich07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 7,964
rich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridrich07 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
But still you're saying that those engines are not used in a professional motorsport which is rubbish.

Even if the category is wholly of gentlemen racers (and it isn't as there are plenty of pros) it's still professional motorsport by definition. And by saying otherwise you're slandering the hard work of those who participate whether they be drivers, snappers, truck drivers or yes indeed hairdressers.
rich07 is online now  
__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 09:04 (Ref:3741543)   #63
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,311
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Aren't GT3 engines being used in the back of some of the new-for-2017 Prototypes in the IMSA Series?

Are we saying that is not professional motorsport? Tell that to the Taylors, Scott Sharp etc etc..
one five five is online now  
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 09:05 (Ref:3741545)   #64
Compromised
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 314
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeah put gt3 in the bin, supercars spend big $$$ chasing a few horsepower, that's the way forward, that's motorsport. Can't see why new/old manufacturer interest is waning, meh, probably unrelated
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3741555)   #65
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 15,134
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Yeah put gt3 in the bin, supercars spend big $$$ chasing a few horsepower, that's the way forward, that's motorsport. Can't see why new/old manufacturer interest is waning, meh, probably unrelated
Isnt that one of the key reasons why manufactuers are getting into gt4. The gt3 cars were getting too expensive as they chase HP, aero and weight. that they have now had to get into lower cost cars as they were starting to get out of the price of the common person
peckstar is online now  
__________________
Scott and Chaz 1-2 in 2017

well that's my hope
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:44 (Ref:3741587)   #66
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,095
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Gentleman drivers, was that not clear to you.
A certain Mr Van Gisbergen may disagree with you. He looks quite handy in a GT3. Wonder how he'd get on in a 'Professional' category?
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:51 (Ref:3741593)   #67
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 1,806
chavez should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich07 View Post
But still you're saying that those engines are not used in a professional motorsport which is rubbish.

Even if the category is wholly of gentlemen racers (and it isn't as there are plenty of pros) it's still professional motorsport by definition. And by saying otherwise you're slandering the hard work of those who participate whether they be drivers, snappers, truck drivers or yes indeed hairdressers.
No doubt the work done by the teams and drivers is very professional.

Unfortunately some of the sporting regulations including minimum pit stop times and driver seedings go against this notation of professionalism.

It is very much in the spirit of splendid amateurism prevalent in the British army tank regiments of the Second World War. Apologies if this analogy is too obscure, but I can't think of another comparison.

I follow AGT and have followed sports car racing in Australia for many years. And for most of those years the gentleman driver didn't need minimum pit stop times or driver seedings to be competitive.
chavez is offline  
__________________
Real race cars don't have doors.
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 13:16 (Ref:3741603)   #68
PS2244
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Australia
Newcastle, NSW
Posts: 797
PS2244 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No offence meant Peckstar but for lack of a better word I fail to see how theirs any validity to your labelling of GT3, as an exemplar look at the Am-Am class from this years Bathurst 12 hour it was fully professional through and through you had the likes of Jamie Whincup partnering with Toni Vilander . Of course yes there's gentleman racers their they are integral part of GT3 but to label it as not real Motorsport is not a fair summation in my view, I hope I have not offended you

Last edited by PS2244; 15 Jun 2017 at 13:30.
PS2244 is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 14:52 (Ref:3741641)   #69
StueyB83
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 29
StueyB83 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Isnt that one of the key reasons why manufactuers are getting into gt4. The gt3 cars were getting too expensive as they chase HP, aero and weight. that they have now had to get into lower cost cars as they were starting to get out of the price of the common person
Manufacturers still tip insane amounts of money into GT3 because that's what the people watch. It's retains a good level of privateer and factory interest because in-season development is severely limited and so is the outlay. They have little reason to chase too much HP, Aero or lose weight because every advantage is eventually thwarted by BoP.

I can only suspect that the minimum performance level set by the FIA and tested each September for homologation is a constantly moving goal post that is forcing GT3 speeds up every few years - hence the GT-R, Jaguar and Bentley beginning to drop off.

It is reaching a point of unsustainable cost escalation, however - but I am sceptical every dollar and dime received on a GT3 car only just covers the cost to build it...

Most are only adding GT4 to their inventory (and TCR in some instances) to capture greater market share.

GT4 Europe is still predominantly contested by tuner built models and legacy one-make cars - with the Cayman MR and McLaren 570s slowly starting to take over.

GT4 still costs a bomb - $250k plus for a raft of newer models - well out of reach of most normal people (as is TCR - $100k + is not something most people have laying about for toys).
StueyB83 is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3741796)   #70
simon5574
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
melbourne, australia
Posts: 95
simon5574 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-star View Post
I don't think you understand much about anything
I think you just like to argue because you have no friends
pretty offensive immature response.

A lot of work and expense can be thrown at an engine even with a 'capped' power output.

Engine builders and tuners can spend plenty chasing the delivery of that power, ie where and how it makes it, tractability etc while still arriving at the same peak output as the next bloke.

Engine power delivery can be very specifically and carefully designed for each track.

Others may choose to operate a basic config designed for high mileage for instance.

I could continue to elaborate but hopefully you are starting to grasp the concept that others are discussing and have a more considerate response 👍

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
simon5574 is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Jun 2017, 22:43 (Ref:3742004)   #71
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 15,134
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon5574 View Post

A lot of work and expense can be thrown at an engine even with a 'capped' power output.

Engine builders and tuners can spend plenty chasing the delivery of that power, ie where and how it makes it, tractability etc while still arriving at the same peak output as the next bloke.

Engine power delivery can be very specifically and carefully designed for each track.

Others may choose to operate a basic config designed for high mileage for instance.

I could continue to elaborate but hopefully you are starting to grasp the concept that others are discussing and have a more considerate response 👍

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Well described. thank you
peckstar is online now  
__________________
Scott and Chaz 1-2 in 2017

well that's my hope
Quote
Old 16 Jun 2017, 00:05 (Ref:3742039)   #72
Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 2,408
Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon5574 View Post
A lot of work and expense can be thrown at an engine even with a 'capped' power output.

Engine builders and tuners can spend plenty chasing the delivery of that power, ie where and how it makes it, tractability etc while still arriving at the same peak output as the next bloke.

Engine power delivery can be very specifically and carefully designed for each track.

Others may choose to operate a basic config designed for high mileage for instance.

I could continue to elaborate but hopefully you are starting to grasp the concept that others are discussing and have a more considerate response 👍

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Not to mention fuel economy, CoG, rotating mass and a raft of other items - you've nailed it with that post Simon.

Those suggesting that a capped power output means no development simply have no idea what they're talking about.
Tourer is offline  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 16 Jun 2017, 01:17 (Ref:3742046)   #73
T-star
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 386
T-star should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The only difference is in Supercars the teams develop the engine
In GT3 its the manufacturer

Both produce engines worthy of real & professional motorsport


And please keep the personal insults to a minimum. Woolley has warned us and straight away there have been posts saying I am ímmature offensive'and then 'no idea what i am talking about'


Both personal attacks. I hope the moderators are watching
T-star is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jun 2017, 01:40 (Ref:3742051)   #74
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 1,806
chavez should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-star View Post

Both produce engines worthy of real & professional motorsport

Sadly the spectacle is often ruined by "every child wins a prize sporting regulations".

How many times do we see races spoiled by a combination of minimum pitstop times based on driver seedings and safety car intervention?
chavez is offline  
__________________
Real race cars don't have doors.
Quote
Old 16 Jun 2017, 04:06 (Ref:3742062)   #75
velly4
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Australia
Posts: 273
velly4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
Sadly the spectacle is often ruined by "every child wins a prize sporting regulations".

How many times do we see races spoiled by a combination of minimum pitstop times based on driver seedings and safety car intervention?
If Supercars went to the GT3 regs for example those rules wouldn't be applied. So it's a non discussion point.
Those rules are applied to allow gentleman drivers to race with other gentleman as well as pros.

I'm not for a second saying one is better than the other because both have their place. Currently though Supercars have an issue of not being able to attract and maintain manufacturer interest.
I think if they did adopt GT3 regs the teams in the series would lift GT3 to entirely new level. I think it has the potential to become the epitome of the GT world quite easily and would be fantastic to watch.
velly4 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gt3 Rs & Gt3 R Omega-Red Sportscar & GT Racing 18 27 Nov 2003 18:55
SuperTouring Vs New BTCC ADnet WTCC & European Touring Car Series 13 5 Jun 2003 09:14
SuperTouring web site supertouring Cool Sites 10 15 May 2003 16:42
BMW 3 series (Supertouring) alesi95 Motorsport History 1 27 Jun 2002 13:24


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.