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Old 16 Dec 2015, 13:15 (Ref:3598144)   #1
deley
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Code 60 for UK

MSA proposed regulation change to introduce Code 60 in the UK from Jan '17 has been published for consultation.
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 13:32 (Ref:3598145)   #2
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hallelujah!
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 13:53 (Ref:3598148)   #3
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Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher View Post
hallelujah!
Why?

It just means you'll get cars trundling round with no gaps, making Marshals work harder and more dangerous, with a Safety Car you know when you have them all behind you and how big the gap is, this can be radioed to those dealing with the incident.

With a Safety Car the Race Leaders know when the lights 'Go Off' to get ready to restart.

Please discuss...................................
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 14:35 (Ref:3598151)   #4
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I've worked live tracks with major incidents
under Code 60
under Full Course Yellow
under Safety Car
and
under local Double Waved Yellow.
{and that's my order of preference, although at some circuits DWY can beat SC when it comes to driver compliance}

When a local yellow just won't do, Code 60 for marshal maximum safety would be my choice. Every time.

It's 37.2823 mph (thanks Dave Patrick), slower than a lot of traffic on a 30mph roads are. How often do we walk with our backs to normal roadside traffic?

Gaps are irrelevant at those speeds. What a marshal needs is safe controlled working conditions - something lacking on many occasions when a safety car is deployed.
How often do we see
cars not catching up to the main group in front (quite often)
cars still running at race pace to catch up to the cars in front (far too often).

Code 60 implementation means that the whole field has control imposed within a matter of seconds. Likewise when the incident is cleared - all points green flag, racing recommences everywhere (and if drivers have to watch for a green, it means they're looking at the flag points)

Deploying a safety car takes time, especially for those less than life threatening incidents, usually control waiting until the leader approaches, but then again, deployment will miss the leader all too often. Then once the incident is clear, the pack may have to be reshuffled to play find the leader and there tends to be one more lap to be sure (unless the chequer is close).

For me this year has been frustrating - due to the Bianchi modifications. We could clear single seaters from Paddock bend gravel in 3 to 5 minutes under the old way of local DWY - now we have to wait for a SC deployment, wait for the majority of the field to get lined up behind it - then control lets the JCB loose. 1 or 2 laps of SC to get rid of the visitors, then one more lap to be safe - easily 4 laps of SC - in all about 10 minutes on Brands Indy - and as for crash prone series that will only use SC.. what a waste of track time.
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 14:39 (Ref:3598154)   #5
deley
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The gaps are all fixed, cars circulating at about 40mph, no one at racing speed trying to catch up with the train, no need to catch leader or wave cars past SC, no need to waste laps while train forms behind SC, etc, etc

So actually safer than current SC

Added bonus for drivers is no one loses out on gaps they might have created during the race so fairer racing
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 14:51 (Ref:3598155)   #6
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from years ago
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...highlight=code
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 15:24 (Ref:3598160)   #7
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SWCRacing has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
It's a "No Thanks" from me, both as a driver and an official.

The MSA will be getting my comments....
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 15:36 (Ref:3598162)   #8
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It's a "No Thanks" from me, both as a driver and an official.

The MSA will be getting my comments....
Exactly the same from me: as a Driver & a Clerk.
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 15:52 (Ref:3598164)   #9
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Coach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCoach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCoach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCoach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Maybe you should see it live with your own eyes before becoming convinced it's the far superior procedure! Not that it's perfect but it easily beats a SC 9 out of 10 times.

And it's not only safer for marshals/recovery workers/etc. to work on most incidents, it also lowers the risk of another caution right after the restart as the field is less bunched up (defying the old "yellows bread yellows" routine).

At the end of the day, there's still the option of deploying the SC if/when judged necessary - preferably when the race is already under Code 60 to prevent cars from chasing and catching back up to the pack.

Good move by the MSA - it was about time. I wonder how much longer the various sanctioning bodies over here in the US will take to make a similar move? 5, 10, 15 years perhaps?
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 16:38 (Ref:3598170)   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk View Post
Exactly the same from me: as a Driver & a Clerk.
so you ask for a discussion on the subject and then tell us that you'll be saying no.

Why?
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 16:59 (Ref:3598176)   #11
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Terrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTerrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Never seen a "real" code 60, but seen a FCY during BlancPain I think it was (or possibly WEC - not sure). Essentially the pit limiters (or similar) are used to control the speed of the car. Everything dropped to pit limit speed in an instant (more or less). Seemed to work very well, and I would have no issues at going track side whilst this was happening.

However, for MSA Club racing, I think it isn't quite so simple. There are no electronics to limit speed. A lot of club cars, Sports and Single Seaters mainly, do not even have speedometers, so how is an individual driver going to know his exact speed? Further, even a lot of saloon/hatches have poor speedos (ours is all over the show) or have them disconnected. Before you ask how about pit speed then, well the tendency (mostly) in short club racing is to enter the pits at a speed you know to be well below pit speed, and often you only enter in a train of cars anyway at the end.

So I see that this is going to be difficult to both police, and for drivers to adhere to accurately.

To my mind the most dangerous bit about a SC is stuff pitting under SC then sprinting around the track to catch up with the SC train again. For me one of the answers would be to have a pit lane closer (unless an emergency such as fuel or mech failure) and if something comes in, hold it until end of SC period - harsh but there you are.

So though I see the plus sides of a Code 60, enforcement, policing and accuracy may be an issue?
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 17:07 (Ref:3598179)   #12
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In Dubai for those without speed limiters a short session behind a course car running at 60 kph was run. I seem to remember the official explanation was so that drivers could figure out what revs they were running in various gears to achieve that 60 kph.

I'm sure something similar could be worked out. (or nowadays just run with a gps enabled smartphone clamped somewhere.)

Policing by the timekeepers is simple enough - and believe me, when the field is all (more or less) doing 60kph, anybody doing more stands out. A quick call to race control usually gets there times inspected. Treat it like 4wo regards offence and penalties perhaps.
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 17:44 (Ref:3598185)   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSA Race Committee proposed reg (Q)15.1.1.(e)
Reason: The Code 60 flag is used successfully in other countries and can be an alternate option available in place of a Safety Car. The wording has been drafted from the Dutch regulations with small changes for UK.
As an alternative with a track record of use in other countries I can't see a reason why not to have this in the Blue Book.

It doesn't mean all Clerks/circuits/clubs will like it or use it, but some will - and some we already know do both when abroad, so why not have the regulation available? It seems particularly sane to add to the weaponry at our collective disposal, especially considering Creventic's move into UK events with the Silverstone 24.
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 18:03 (Ref:3598188)   #14
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Richard Duvall should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I presume that the flags would need to be deployed simultaneously at all flag points so that no driver is disadvantaged, whereas the timing of them seeing SC Board & flag has no impact as they all end up in the queue. This implies the need to equip Flag Marshals with radios?
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Old 16 Dec 2015, 20:27 (Ref:3598210)   #15
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm always interested in the opinion of others, that's why i've asked for it to be discussed here.
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