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Old 6 Mar 2011, 00:54   #61
smokin'joe
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Originally Posted by promax View Post
joe's issue doesn't seem to be with change.. more to do with way it's being done. we don't need to go back to the olden days with only 2 tranzam camaros or a couple of bmws and a telstar fighting it out in our top class..
exactly. it has happened to nearly every championship where there is more than one manufacturer in the past . is this new supertourer OSCA/GTNZ eligible, if so, why would you not merge and have a decent 'big banger class' again, until such time as you have enough numbers to run them as a standalone class????.
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porsche, suzuki, mini. etc are all running current models yet are also finding it difficult to get sponsors on board too. apart from online.. i can't say i've ever any spectators complain at a circuit about the current V8s not being the current models. the look, the sound, good racin' and good numbers is what's important! the a couple of cars (no matter what they are) isn't.
so it's not the age of the cars that is the problem, it's lack of cars that concerns you as well.

does any one in VEEGA/TMC have a spreadsheet that outlines over the past 2-3 years:
who entered the championship;
which rounds they entered;
which guys did every round.
i believe it would make concerning reading??

So, Mark, DJJ, Biggy G etc, what happens when only 6-10 of these cars front up because of a supposed 'need to change'
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 01:25   #62
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promax has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
well the feedback from a group of newbies i know that went to last years Hamilton 400 was.. NZV8 races were better to watch and the cars sounded like real V8s unlike the Supercars. no mention of out of date body shells.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 02:04   #63
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Originally Posted by smokin'joe View Post
So, Mark, DJJ, Biggy G etc, what happens when only 6-10 of these cars front up because of a supposed 'need to change'
From what i've read and heard about the series I don't think this is a possibility, we've just ticked over a year until round 1 and there is already significant interest.

And as for people complaing at the track, I dont think there is as much value in their opnion as there is from the punters that were coming to the track 5 to 6 years ago, but no longer are. Or big V8 Supercar fans that have never attended a NZV8 round. How bout we got out and ask them why they're not coming through the turnstiles, you've already got the $$$ from the people at the track.

The NZV8 series is out-dated to the general public and media. They want to see the FG's and VE's that are seen in Australia, hence the popularity of the NZV8's when the Supercars were running the same models.

You'd be naive to think the media wouldn't be interested in a series where they couldn't plaster "Murphy Wins" across the headlines too and when the media is interested, the sponsors are interested, and in turn that fills the grids and brings in the fans.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 02:19   #64
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Originally Posted by promax View Post
joe's issue doesn't seem to be with change.. more to do with way it's being done. we don't need to go back to the olden days with only 2 tranzam camaros or a couple of bmws and a telstar fighting it out in our top class. porsche, suzuki, mini. etc are all running current models yet are also finding it difficult to get sponsors on board too. apart from online.. i can't say i've ever any spectators complain at a circuit about the current V8s not being the current models. the look, the sound, good racin' and good numbers is what's important! the a couple of cars (no matter what they are) isn't.
I think change can be good, but I agree it's the way it's being done I am a bit leery of and whether than benefits the common good of the sport into the future.

Any series that aims to be "professional" in terms of attracting crowds and sponsors to pay the bills, the ultimate foundation building block is the fan, the person that pays to attend races, patronizes sponsors, watches on tv, tells other people about it/talks about it and so on. Sure there is some business to business dealing out there that funds professional motorsport, but I believe if there is no one out in the general public that gives a rip, you don't have a show to put on.

The old cars, well I dunno. In Argentina they still run 1970's cars in Turrismo Carretera and of course historic motorsport seems to be the only growth in motorsport these days(that should say something). Certainly there is an argument to make that older cars can have staying power. In this case I'd lean towards newer cars, but as you say "the look, the sound, good racin' and good numbers is what's important!".

And if that is important, which for the "fans" I believe it's what has them follow the sport, then I don't know if this approach of dividing then hoping to conquer is going to work. To do so puts faith in collapsing the NZV8 series, which is an established name now after 10 years. Can that be pulled off in such an economy, especially after what happened recently? I'm not convinced.

I wish a better alternative could have been worked out rather than 2 ships setting sail in different directions.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 05:08   #65
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If you want motor racing in NZ to grow you have to bring back the big bangers. It is obvious thats what the crowds want to see. The NZV8's just don't quite have that rumble. Hopefully the NZ Super Tourers will have that sound we all miss.

We also need to have famous drivers in the cars. Most people on these forums will remember the days that Brock, Johnson, Millen, Richards etc raced in the Tranzam series. There were big crowds at these meetings.

I could imagine next season there will probably be very few entries in the NZV8's. How can the different organisations work together to replace the NZV8's with NZ Super Tourers? This would be the best idea for everyone I would say.

Just you average spectator
Mike
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 07:45   #66
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Originally Posted by M Jones View Post
If you want motor racing in NZ to grow you have to bring back the big bangers.
umm they still race in the IRC Series


while i liked Tranzam.. you can't compare that series to the current NZV8 series. numbers weren't that great, reliability wasn't great, a lot of the racing wasn't great. they do sound good though

in other news.. why would you want to stack the field with overseas drivers? and who is going to pick up the bill?
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 12:07   #67
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A new era of touring car racing in NZ.

So long as the Supertourer class maintains a uniqueness against the V8supercars it will retain the popular elements of the current series and grow alot further.

People who get into the NZV8s currently do so because its different from any other v8 category, the only main similairitys being ford and holden, and even then there is bugger all manufacturer input. At Hamilton when the NZV8s come out the supercar fans smirk at the old shells and expect rookie racing carnage. After lap 2 without fail their opinion changes as they realise the quality of racing.

But at the end of the day, most of the top drivers are all in falcons on the basis of a competitive package. The holdens have struggled for a while now and it isnt attractive to sponsors or the casual punter.

In the long term the new Supertourer should be cost effective, the panels and parts will always be in stock and to spec without having to source donor cars or trailering the car down to the local panel beater. If we can get old taxis and cop cars to race for this long surely a new purpose built chassis is going to last and provide just the same.

My hope is that race formats are enjoyable, the racing is close and has passing, and that 7 liters give my ears an orgasm
A well promoted series will also stand out from the rest, as if i havent stressed that enough across many forums.

Personaly the only gripe so far from me is no H pattern, missed gears are part of the racing!

Kenny.

Last edited by KLR93; 6 Mar 2011 at 12:13.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 18:54   #68
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Hi all, I am new to this forum, and have been a V8 junkie for about 4 years now (ever since the first V8SC race in Hamilton).

I think this is the best thing to happen to NZ motorsport in years. It is a fact that the old taxis are at the end of their time and need to be re-vamped and modernised.

I have some questions for Mark Petch if he has the time to answer them:

1) Do you think this new series will be seen as a stepping stone for NZ or Aus drivers to enter fujitsu series?
2) If so then I think this will work very well as the NZST class should attract well known aussie teams/drivers. We may even see 'off-season' V8SC and Fujitsu guys competing in this class, and that will be awesome!
3) The fact the murph is already on the books must be a big coup for your guys. Its seems a matter of time before the likes of Bargs, Ingall and maybe even Stevie Richards would make the transfer over (and maybe even Tander in a few years time!). I also see this is a great opportunity for Scott McGlaughlan (sp?) and a few of the other young guns)
4) The cars look great and the engine/gearbox package sounds amazing (i have been waiting for the day to come when we see seq. boxes being run in our V8's). However 550hp seems a little light from an engine that can produce in excess of 750hp. Is there provision for the HP to be increased to say 620hp so it sits just under the V8SC output? - once again another way of opening up the category to some of the V8SC guys.
5) I notice in the press release that the wheels are still using the 5 stud pattern as opposed to a centre nut - will this be the case with the final car? (the reason i ask is i am interested to know whether the new class will have pit stops like what we see in the main game in Aus.)
6) One of the problems with the current BNT V8's is that they are hideously under tyred and lack any decent aero. Will the new tyre an aero package be the same as a current V8SC? This is one area where the whole 'look' of the car becomes important from a fans point of view.
7) I notice the car in the press release was a VEII commodore - will this be the same for all the new cars or will some opt for the VEI model? (i realise that there will of course still be an FG option - which i can;t wait to see!!)
8) I believe if marketed correctly there is no reason why this class would not be aired in Australia which opens up a whole new audience/sponsors/ and possibly even overseas races (much like what V8SC are doing now). Imagine a Team Vodafone car racing in NZST - why not!!

I personally am over the moon about the news of this series and I will be there on day one without fail and i hope that the rest of NZ Msport fans will do the same.

I also hope that our current NZV8 operators band together with the aim of supporting this new class, and maybe even making the complete crossover - afterall this new class has a future mapped out and its in line with COTF (which whether you like it or not is the way forward)

Mark i wish you all the best with this and i hope it is a successful venture and one which leads to greater parity between us and the aussies, and one which draws great crowds to some of our better facilities such as 'the downs'.

Now i realise that my views will not be the same as everyone else so i am expecting a slaying to some point. However, please keep in mind that I am new to the sport and was attracted to it solely becase of what i saw in Hamilton a few years ago, so i am writing this purely from a spectators point of view.

And Mark, please get that website up and running

Thanks all, and i look forward to being part of this forum

Stu
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 07:58   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZSTfan View Post
Hi all, I am new to this forum, and have been a V8 junkie for about 4 years now (ever since the first V8SC race in Hamilton).

I think this is the best thing to happen to NZ motorsport in years. It is a fact that the old taxis are at the end of their time and need to be re-vamped and modernised.

I have some questions for Mark Petch if he has the time to answer them:

1) Do you think this new series will be seen as a stepping stone for NZ or Aus drivers to enter fujitsu series?
YES

2) If so then I think this will work very well as the NZST class should attract well known aussie teams/drivers. We may even see 'off-season' V8SC and Fujitsu guys competing in this class, and that will be awesome!
3) The fact the murph is already on the books must be a big coup for your guys. Its seems a matter of time before the likes of Bargs, Ingall and maybe even Stevie Richards would make the transfer over (and maybe even Tander in a few years time!). I also see this is a great opportunity for Scott McGlaughlan (sp?) and a few of the other young guns)
4) The cars look great and the engine/gearbox package sounds amazing (i have been waiting for the day to come when we see seq. boxes being run in our V8's).

However 550hp seems a little light from an engine that can produce in excess of 750hp. Is there provision for the HP to be increased to say 620hp so it sits just under the V8SC output? - once again another way of opening up the category to some of the V8SC guys.
The car with driver, already has a greater power to weight ratio that a IV8Supercar, and significantly more engine torque

5) I notice in the press release that the wheels are still using the 5 stud pattern as opposed to a centre nut - will this be the case with the final car? (the reason i ask is i am interested to know whether the new class will have pit stops like what we see in the main game in Aus.)
Yes.
6) One of the problems with the current BNT V8's is that they are hideously under tyred and lack any decent aero. Will the new tyre an aero package be the same as a current V8SC?
The aero is identical to the current V8SC, from the exact same molds.

This is one area where the whole 'look' of the car becomes important from a fans point of view.
7) I notice the car in the press release was a VEII commodore - will this be the same for all the new cars or will some opt for the VEI model? (i realise that there will of course still be an FG option - which i can;t wait to see!!)
8) I believe if marketed correctly there is no reason why this class would not be aired in Australia which opens up a whole new audience/sponsors/ and possibly even overseas races (much like what V8SC are doing now). Imagine a Team Vodafone car racing in NZST - why not!!

I personally am over the moon about the news of this series and I will be there on day one without fail and i hope that the rest of NZ Msport fans will do the same.

I also hope that our current NZV8 operators band together with the aim of supporting this new class, and maybe even making the complete crossover - after all
NZV8's have a contract with TMC, which means that they must run over the TMC promoted "Summer Series". The V8ST Series runs over a calendar year, and want to control our own destiny. Should VEEGA be released from that contract, we would welcome the NZV8'd with open arms [I happen to own two of them so it would be great] but contracts are contracts, and TMC is 60% owned by MSNZ.

this new class has a future mapped out and its in line with COTF (which whether you like it or not is the way forward)

Mark i wish you all the best with this and i hope it is a successful venture and one which leads to greater parity between us and the aussies, and one which draws great crowds to some of our better facilities such as 'the downs'.

Now i realise that my views will not be the same as everyone else so i am expecting a slaying to some point. However, please keep in mind that I am new to the sport and was attracted to it solely becase of what i saw in Hamilton a few years ago, so i am writing this purely from a spectators point of view.

And Mark, please get that website up and running:
Check out www.v8supertourers.co.nz its up and running now, still heaps of housework and information to be loaded so keep checking back over the next few months because all news will be posted first on that site.

Thanks all, and i look forward to being part of this forum

Stu
hope that assist your understanding of what you may expect in the future.

Mark Petch.
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 19:02   #70
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Thanks for the reply Mark, I appreciate your time.

I checked the website too, looks great

One thing i did notice however is that the rear doors look shorter than the production model. I know that with V8SC the rear door on the VE is 40mm shorter than the production model which allows it to share the same platform as the FG. Is this the case with the NZST class? (i.e. the rear door on the VE will be shorter?)

Its interesting you say that with the new configuration the power to weight ratio will be up on a V8SC, so it will be interesting to see (if ever the day comes) when a NZST shares the same track with a V8SC (Hamilton 400 maybe??) and see what the difference in lap times are - its sounds as if they would be pretty close.

Can you give us any more teasers on potential drivers for this class Mark?

Cheers

Stu
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 19:31   #71
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Originally Posted by KLR93 View Post
In the long term the new Supertourer should be cost effective, the panels and parts will always be in stock and to spec without having to source donor cars or trailering the car down to the local panel beater. If we can get old taxis and cop cars to race for this long surely a new purpose built chassis is going to last and provide just the same.
Kenny.
true.. but we have now NZV8 teams with $100,000's worth of gear that isn't Supertourer friendly. the Supertourer series is totally different series to NZV8.. that's going to cause issues. if was an evolution of NZV8 and there was a transitional period it wouldn't be as bad.
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 19:36   #72
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A new era of touring car racing in NZ.
Kenny.
can we even class them as touring cars? they're kinda like oversized star cars
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Old 8 Mar 2011, 01:09   #73
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Careful what you wish for Stu. Following the V8's lead may be good, but it could be bad (I'd suggest it would lean more toward the latter)

Front Aero can cause issues when the cars are closely matched for speed etc. It can mean the front grip changes in different situations and cars get caught following one another and don't have that extra 10th needed to make the pass. Stressing motors to their limits means more $$, no reason to do it especially when all you are really after is a level playing field. Better to over-engineer than have bits break because you are pushing them too hard. Pit stops can be good in making races last longer, however once it gets competitive, it just adds another component of cost. Fluid dynamics and development of fuel rigs, mega $$ impact guns, physically trained pit-crew all start making them a potentially costly and unnecessary. K.I.S.S is a principle often best applied. And it looks like the cars have followed that for the most part.

Theoretically the series has a good foundation, I understand what they are trying to achieve, time will tell if theory and reality line up - history tells us that it's usually not the case. Ideally it would make sense to have it as an evolution, but as Mark highlighted, he owns some of the current cars, so he is stretching himself to do this too. Effectively it looks like they are creating an "Outlaw" type series, which again can be good, but it can be bad. There will be short term pain no doubt, but I hope it pays off for you guys.

(And BTW, dont expect the big boys over here to allow you in on TV and sponsor coverage over here - not unless you are willing to pay that is)
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Old 8 Mar 2011, 06:52   #74
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true.. but we have now NZV8 teams with $100,000's worth of gear that isn't Supertourer friendly. the Supertourer series is totally different series to NZV8.. that's going to cause issues. if was an evolution of NZV8 and there was a transitional period it wouldn't be as bad.
geez Promax, you don't happen to drink Speights as well?? , seem to share similar views elsewhere.

what happens to the old cars......... nothing. effectively they will become totally worthless, unless Mark and his band of merry wallet slingers have an outlet organised for them?........... doubt it????? who would want them when the average clubmans car can bust quicker laps

hey Mark, still waiting for a spreadsheet of entries Vs events over the last few seasons................ or is the reading too grim to admit to??

how much of the interest/enquiry, in this new car/series, involves a multi car team with David John as the entrant
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Old 8 Mar 2011, 08:54   #75
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The NZV8 series will still be running... race them there...

or...

Leave TMC, spend a little more money in the short term but in the long term have a much healthier suistainable and popular race series..

I actualy find it hard to believe TMC are in the business as promoters. They cant promote squat!
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