Home Forum News Cookbook F1 Predictions FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising IRC Chat  
Site Partners: Rally Ads Racing24 SpotterGuides Downforce Radio MotorsportAds MotorsTV (Sky 447) » 01-11 19:30 : (Live) NASCAR NATIONWIDE SERIES RD 31 : TEXAS  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9 Aug 2011, 18:51   #1
BobHWS
Racer
 
BobHWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United States
Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 492
BobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
USA Grand Prix Austin (part deux)

The previous thread on this topic was locked (don't know why) so, since there is still a lot of interest in the topic and with an OK from a moderator, I am starting a new discussion thread.

To get things started, here is a recent opinion piece about the race from Austin's hometown paper (I give the paper credit for allowing opposing views to be heard). I think it's a good summary of all the potential problems with awarding a race to a place like Austin. I especially agree with the writer's point that "...many first-year attendees will leave with a been-there-done-that attitude."

Some would argue that attracting fans from Texas is not important, but I disagree and I would point to the example of Montreal. While a majority of the fans at the Montreal race come from outside the Montreal area and the province of Quebec, fans from the Montreal area and beyond (between Ottawa and Quebec City) constitute a sizable proportion of each year's crowd. And they come back year after year. Why? Because they are hardcore F1 fans.

I know, there are some hardcore fans in Texas too, just as there are some where I live in North Carolina. But are there enough to provide an annual local base of support for an F1 event whose tickets cost $250-500 each? It remains to be seen.

Mauzy: Is F1 sending Austin racing toward disaster?
Stephen Mauzy, Special Contributor
statesman.com
Published: 11:35 p.m. Friday, Aug. 5, 2011

So Austin is busting into the big time – set to become a "world-class" city, like other U.S. world-class cities: Watkins Glen, N.Y.; Detroit; Dallas; Phoenix; Las Vegas; Long Beach; and Indianapolis...

Formula One's high costs guarantees that many first-year attendees will leave with a been-there-done-that attitude. They won't be back...

And let's not overlook location: Austin, for all its splendor and charm, simply isn't a major destination city...

The overarching concern, though, is Bernie Ecclestone, whose thumb the Circuit of the Americas owners are now firmly under. Ecclestone is one of the world's shrewdest and least sentimental businessmen...

...If Ecclestone believes a more remunerative deal resides elsewhere, rumblings about a breach of contract will soon enough emanate from Europe.

So don't be surprised if a few years hence Austin finds itself in the same league as Watkins Glen, Detroit, Dallas, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Long Beach, and Indianapolis – a world-class city that has hosted Formula One races.
BobHWS is offline  
__________________
Vive les F1 Babes de Montreal!
Old 9 Aug 2011, 20:33   #2
Ken_T
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
United States
Texas
Posts: 65
Ken_T should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think we get it. You are not a fan of F1 in Austin and/or perhaps the US.

Perhaps we should save the bandwidth and pick this up in spring when we can see the progress and better judge whether it will make it. Or we could keep speculating with articles about Austin from a finance guy in Colorado.
Ken_T is offline  
__________________
Ken
Old 9 Aug 2011, 20:46   #3
Bononi
Pirate Assassin
20KPINAL
 
Bononi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location:
Black Sand Beach Park
Posts: 21,572
Bononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I don't see any problems discussing the pros and cons of the GP since we can keep it as a friendly and interesting discussion.

Otherwise this will be a short thread.
Bononi is offline  
__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman
An' I'll show you somebody who will
Old 9 Aug 2011, 21:14   #4
BobHWS
Racer
 
BobHWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United States
Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 492
BobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_T View Post
Perhaps we should save the bandwidth and pick this up in spring when we can see the progress and better judge whether it will make it.
Sorry Ken, but given that the previous thread on this topic had 998 replies and 44,904 views, the members of Ten-Tenths have voted with their mouse-clicks to continue the discussion.
BobHWS is offline  
__________________
Vive les F1 Babes de Montreal!
Old 10 Aug 2011, 16:52   #5
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 3,293
chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!
glad you brought it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
Some would argue that attracting fans from Texas is not important, but I disagree...
in the previous thread you provided a link for an article by an economist discussing the merits (rather the lack of) on tax subsidies for sporting and entertainment events.

essentially it made the point (which i did find very valid) that people have a fixed amount to spend on entertainment. by offering incentives for sporting events all the local or state government is doing is encouraging people to change their spending habits (for example, instead of spending at a local restaurant i will spend at a sporting event) as opposed to creating any new spending an hence not generating additional tax revenue.

combined with your position that the State is overestimating how much in new taxes they will collect because of the race i took that to mean that you were of the opinion that having locals attend the race doesn't matter or make any difference to the financial viability of this event from the State's ability to collect taxes perspective.

forgive me if i read to much into that.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
It's the end, the end of the 70's
It's the end, the end of the century
Old 10 Aug 2011, 18:35   #6
neiltb
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Scotland
toronto
Posts: 275
neiltb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the beeb are reporting that the austin race will be 19 of 20 next year (along with turkeys demise), so might get some extra exposure if it's close. it also gives them an extra few months to get ready.

I'm going to try and remain positive about this race as long as I can, I might fancy a holiday mid Nov next year.
neiltb is offline  
Old 10 Aug 2011, 18:48   #7
Purist
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Wichita, Kansas, USA
Posts: 5,167
Purist has a real shot at the podium!Purist has a real shot at the podium!Purist has a real shot at the podium!Purist has a real shot at the podium!Purist has a real shot at the podium!
I would have to disagree that there is an absolute fixed amount people will spend with or without an event. People will often spend something more than the norm for a special event that's coming to town. That is to say, if they were just going about their normal activities without the event, they would spend less in that period of time.

Most people who will actually be able to afford to go to the race will have some reserves, so they'll still eat out and go book shopping or whatever, as they normally do, and the spending on this event will be extra on top of that.
Purist is offline  
__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
Old 10 Aug 2011, 19:25   #8
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 3,293
chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!chillibowl has a real shot at the podium!
for sure its not so much of an absolute but more of a generalization.

the point was more that since most people have a fixed income/salary they can only spend so many dollars. whether they spend it on other forms of entertainment or whatever else the State government will still collect the same amount of taxes. so when the promoter says the state will generate 26mil(or whatever it is) in new taxes what they are not saying is that the State will lose 26mil in taxes collected from other purchases/activities hence no new revenue for the State.

regardless, that was my understanding of that point and since BobHWS first raised it with that link does he believe that locals will make the difference here or will it be visitors to Austin who will make this event a success financially.

for the record i am a huge fan of the idea of having a race here and will try very much to curb my spending in other areas so i can afford to come to this race next year. people of Texas get ready to enjoy the benefit of my contribution to your tax base!
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
It's the end, the end of the 70's
It's the end, the end of the century
Old 10 Aug 2011, 20:04   #9
BobHWS
Racer
 
BobHWS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United States
Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 492
BobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBobHWS should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post

..combined with your position that the State is overestimating how much in new taxes they will collect because of the race i took that to mean that you were of the opinion that having locals attend the race doesn't matter or make any difference to the financial viability of this event from the State's ability to collect taxes perspective.
Chilli, no, I never thought or meant to imply that it didn't matter whether locals attend the race. Having people from the local and regional areas support the race is definitely important to its success.

Local fans are important for the promoter. Because the promoter makes most of his money from regular ticket sales (Bernie gets all the TV money, all the track signage money and all the hospitality suite money from fat cats and corporations), having a good base of people who can drive to the race the same day is vital to establishing long-term success. Those are the people who will come back year after year. They have lots of those fans in Montreal and England and they don't have many in Turkey and Malaysia, for example.

I do question whether there are enough such hardcore fans in and around Austin Texas. The fans will turn out the first year because it will be a hip thing to do, but we don't know what will happen after that. If the locals stop turning out, then the promoter finds it harder to make money. The track's proximity to Mexico will help the fan turnout, but we don't know how many Mexicans will be able to attend. And what happens if Mexico gets its own race?

As for the question of the supposed economic benefits of the track, I will once again cite this article:

Do Economists Reach a Conclusion on Subsidies for Sports Franchises, Stadiums, and Mega-Events?
by Dennis Coates, Brad R. Humphreys

Abstract

This paper reviews the empirical literature assessing the effects of subsidies for professional sports franchises and facilities. The evidence reveals a great deal of consistency among economists doing research in this area. That evidence is that sports subsidies cannot be justified on the grounds of local economic development, income growth or job creation, those arguments most frequently used by subsidy advocates. The paper also relates survey evidence showing that economists in general oppose sports subsidies. In addition to reviewing the empirical literature, we describe the economic intuition that probably underlies the strong consensus among economists against sports subsidies.
BobHWS is offline  
__________________
Vive les F1 Babes de Montreal!
Old 11 Aug 2011, 04:40   #10
ujoint
Racer
 
ujoint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
United States
usa, virginia
Posts: 332
ujoint should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridujoint should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just the thrill of seeing this thing actually being pulled off is more excitement than the race itself. And, why is the orignal thread locked. The information contained there keeps everything in perspective. Especially for new members joining in the conversation. I myself may hate the event one day and like it the next and so on. Do not be so quick to fault someone who might at this moment appear to love or hate this particular event. Texas you are going to get screwed financially whether you like it or not. By the way an opinion is just that. However, everything is contextual an should be in reference to something. So, this 2nd thread about Circuit du whatever will take a few hundred post to establish its points of view with relevance to the subject at hand.
ujoint is offline  
__________________
Fast is not fast enough.
Old 11 Aug 2011, 04:56   #11
JeremySmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
JeremySmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
United Kingdom
Austin Texas
Posts: 10,524
JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!JeremySmith has a real shot at the championship!
When you guys stop stomping the idea into the ground I will Merge the threads until then just carry on talking...
JeremySmith is offline  
__________________
Come on *talk it up* We are listening .....
Old 11 Aug 2011, 07:49   #12
Chatters
Veteran
 
Chatters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Radelaide, South Australia
Posts: 5,386
Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHWS View Post
Formula One's high costs guarantees that many first-year attendees will leave with a been-there-done-that attitude. They won't be back...
True, but if the circuit can fit, say, 100,000 people, in a country of 250,000,000+ , finding more "first-year attendees" won't be that much of an issue.

Plus you have to factor in overseas visitors, die-hard American motorsports enthusiasts etc...
Chatters is offline  
__________________
"It's by doing whatever that one becomes whomever." - Rémi Gaillard
Old 19 Aug 2011, 04:39   #13
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 10,497
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new lap record!
Thanks for the Part Deux; the saga of the Austin GP isn't over.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Old 19 Aug 2011, 13:25   #14
Marbot
Retired
20KPINAL
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Posts: 22,897
Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!Marbot is going for a new lap record!
I was wondering what the effect of not having a US driver or a US team might have on the US GP?

Do the fans mostly go to see Ferrari/Alonso or whoever? Or is it just that they love F1? Or is it just a good day out? Or something else?
Marbot is offline  
Old 19 Aug 2011, 13:56   #15
Bononi
Pirate Assassin
20KPINAL
 
Bononi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location:
Black Sand Beach Park
Posts: 21,572
Bononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBononi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Somebody somewhere sometime said that Ferrari have a huge fan base in the US.


I wonder...
Bononi is offline  
__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman
An' I'll show you somebody who will
Closed Thread

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US Grand Prix- Austin (USA) Born Racer Formula One 998 4 Aug 2011 01:09
Minardi Peace Stickers Part Deux ASCII Man Formula One 16 11 Apr 2003 22:14
How is the USA living up to the Grand Prix? Gerard Formula One 12 26 Aug 2000 19:24


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2014 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.