[Race] Autódromo Hermanos RodrÃ*guez Modifications

[Razor]

Just saw the "improvements" that Herman Tilke has done to accommodate Formula Bernie.



I know there had to be some changes, (chiefly the oval shape last turn due to lack of run-off) but about 90% of the flow and character has been removed. It's a simple "point and squirt" track that Tilke loves to do but there is very little character to them.

Simply put, another great track ruined to become a Tilkedrome.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

It's all reasonable if a bit annoying but the final corner has been utterly ruined. The FIA need to realise that the reason why Spa, Monza, Silverstone, etc are all driver and fan favourites due to the flow and that Yas Marina and Shanghai are dull because Tilke designed them. Why was this horrible reconfiguration even necessary?

[Pontlieue]

It's not just that Peraltada has been replaced by that stadium section. That could at least be justified by the highway running directly behind the track, making it impossible to add runoff. But even apart from that, all the flow of the track has been replaced with awkward kinks. Also that chicane/hairpin combination from turns 4-6 proves that Tilke has learned nothing from Abu Dhabi. And then he talks about preserving the character of the track. Seriously? Well, compared to his redesign of Hockenheim, he probably kept the character of the track this time.

[Mr Pink]

Another on bites the dust.. Expected but still very sad.

[Deleted]

It's trash, but as soon as it was announced it was always going to be so there's nothing to get angry about at this point.

[adam46]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

It's not just that Peraltada has been replaced by that stadium section. That could at least be justified by the highway running directly behind the track, making it impossible to add runoff. But even apart from that, all the flow of the track has been replaced with awkward kinks. Also that chicane/hairpin combination from turns 4-6 proves that Tilke has learned nothing from Abu Dhabi. And then he talks about preserving the character of the track. Seriously? Well, compared to his redesign of Hockenheim, he probably kept the character of the track this time.

Agreed on turns 4-6. I'm sure we could have just had a hairpin similar to the one at Montreal before the Casino Straight, rather than whatever that complex is...

[AoB Special Stage]

So help me God if they uproot the old track (chiefly the oval section) like Hockenheimring, someone's hearing from the Law Offices of Heckler & Koch.

[Tucky]

I can't get my head around turns 7-11. Why copy the track pretty much exactly and then shift it a few metres back??? They're just making more work for themselves.

[NaBUru38]

Not a single fast corner remains, it's all sharp bends. Must be very boring to drive on a Copa Telcel's Seat León Supercopa.

[Deleted]

Then again isn't everything boring to drive on Seat León Supercopa?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

......Why was this horrible reconfiguration even necessary?

"Safety". I can sort of see their logic with the last turn since there is next to no run off and they can't expand said run off, but a simple chicane or double chicane about half way to 3/4 on the straight to slow the cars down would have worked as well to slow them down. (And to keep that profile of the turn)

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

So help me God if they uproot the old track (chiefly the oval section) like Hockenheimring, someone's hearing from the Law Offices of Heckler & Koch.

So, do you want to borrow my Lawgiver? It's 50/50 if they do a Hockenheim. Be such a shame if they rip up the old track. (or make it unusable like the back part of the old Silverstone track)

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Not a single fast corner remains, it's all sharp bends......

Exactly, no flow. Just point the car and hit the gas for a little while then brake heavily. Repeat. Modern F1 cars can take high load, flowing corners with ease.

[steve_r]

When BBC ran a piece about the possible return here last season, the place looked like a dump and was falling apart. I'm glad to see it back, but sad about the stop-start nature of the track. Still, hopefully it encourages some close racing and overtakes.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by steve_r

When BBC ran a piece about the possible return here last season, the place looked like a dump and was falling apart. I'm glad to see it back, but sad about the stop-start nature of the track. Still, hopefully it encourages some close racing and overtakes.

Methinks it's going to be a procession only.

[S griffin]

Hermann did a good job with Austin, shame he isn't quite as capable when redesigning a circuit.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hermann did a good job with Austin, shame he isn't quite as capable when redesigning a circuit.

I thought COTA was originally laid out by Tavo Hellmund and Tilke came to it later to finish it.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Not a single fast corner remains, it's all sharp bends. Must be very boring to drive on a Copa Telcel's Seat León Supercopa.

mexican motorsports commentator Marco Tolama said that final race of 2015 for the Super Copa Telcel 5-6 december. Interesting plans for 2016.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I thought COTA was originally laid out by Tavo Hellmund and Tilke came to it later to finish it.

Thats' correct Tavo Hellmund and Kevin Schwantz were responsible for the circuit design and Tilke oversaw the construction process.. The actual construction work was by a company called Austin Commercial..

[Tucky]

The track designs over the past few years have been geared to produce more overtaking, just like the tyre and drs changes, by having hard braking areas and fairly sharp corners. I don't think we can blame Tilke so much because he's probably been told ti design them this way. But I really really miss the old flowing tracks where the cars are at full pelt rather than constant braking to encourage overtaking all the time.

[Sodemo]

This is what the track designers just don't understand in my view. You don't have to have a bazillion chances to overtake, I don't think that's what fans really want. What I would like to see is maybe one clear place on a track to overtake, but the rest of the track is fast and flowing. Think back to the old Osterriechring. A brutally fast and flowing track with only really one place where cars slow down and can overtake which was at the Hella Licht chicane, but it was a legitimate place to overtake.

I suppose you could argue that Zandvoort has only really one clear overtaking place, which is Tarzan, the rest of the track is pretty fast and flowing, there are a few places where it gets a bit stop-start (unnecessarily I think personally) but its largely a one overtaking area track.

[Mr Pink]

Yeah, measuring the excitment purely on number of overtakes is a big mistake.

The F1 calendar needs tracks with their own identity, a modern Österreichring or any proper high speed circuit would be great.

[Deleted]

If you listen to Radio Le Mans's Christmas Quiz from last month, there's a section where they have to guess where Maldonado is by listening him describing the location in audio. Sufficiently say that if it wasn't for couple of obvious hints like Malaysian heat or obvious location most of it would be impossible to differiate with same crap from every modern circuit (it has technical sectors, slow corners, fast corners, nice facilities, long straights, small straights, good flow etc)

[ECW Dan Selby]

I'm disappointed they haven't made a new high speed track. I bought this up a few years ago on the My Tracks section of the forum.

Could they not do some revolutionary grandstands (ie. on top of the track etc) and do a mile of run-off for every high speed turn, and just give us one single 'overtaking' spot?

Afterall, we have DRS now, for better or worse (worse..), so are these stop-start sections even worth it anymore?

But, it'll be to do with advertising and good 'spectator points'. I don't buy either, though. Surely all you need is a long straight with a sponsor clearly in the background of the shot - that'll achieve the same thing.

And part of F1's appeal is amazing cornering speeds, not watching the cars go at speeds they shouldn't even be trundling around at..

That's just me, though.

Selby

[Sodemo]

The FIA doesn't want high speed. In their eyes, high speed corners = increased risk.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I'm disappointed they haven't made a new high speed track.

Such alternative layouts already exist in some of the modern asphaltdromes like Borerain but they prefer to stick to the useless technical configurations. Because everything needs to be a ~ 5,5km carbon coby with same grey crap on it

Okay this here is no Monza or Mosport in sense of speed flow but still less stereotypical

[James C.]

Originally Posted by Razor

I know there had to be some changes, (chiefly the oval shape last turn due to lack of run-off)...

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

It's not just that Peraltada has been replaced by that stadium section. That could at least be justified by the highway running directly behind the track, making it impossible to add runoff.

Originally Posted by Razor

"Safety". I can sort of see their logic with the last turn since there is next to no run off and they can't expand said run off, but a simple chicane or double chicane about half way to 3/4 on the straight to slow the cars down would have worked as well to slow them down. (And to keep that profile of the turn)

You are both talking about this castrated version of Peraltada like it was some sort of novelty... Actually, the stadium section is not new at all, it was used by Champ Car in the early/mid 2000s (example from 2003).