F1 and Brexit???

[djinvicta]

Love that Mike. Nice stuff and totally true..

[bobec]

I wasn't following Labour's stance on the referendum, but for me Corbyn always seemed like the guy who you don't want on your side at all, let alone to lead a campaign for something. Some are saying his sabotaged the campaign and there are even rumors and indications that he voted for "leave".

The referendum definitely can not be ignored, but given the results and turnout, and the fact there were over 3 million signatures for a new referendum as of last weekend, and the pro-EU protests in London, why rule out a new referendum?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bobec

I wasn't following Labour's stance on the referendum, but for me Corbyn always seemed like the guy who you don't want on your side at all, let alone to lead a campaign for something. Some are saying his sabotaged the campaign and there are even rumors and indications that he voted for "leave".

The referendum definitely can not be ignored, but given the results and turnout, and the fact there were over 3 million signatures for a new referendum as of last weekend, and the pro-EU protests in London, why rule out a new referendum?

Corbyn has been asked repeatedly whether he voted to remain; he has refused to answer, which to my simple mind, seems to indicate that he did not. What purpose does it serve to not answer the question; it's not as though you are asking a stranger which party they voted for. He was supposed to be leading a political party whose official policy was to remain in Europe!

I believe that it is highly unlikely that another referendum will be held on this matter for many years to come, if ever. The politicos have belatedly woken up to the startling realisation that many members of the electorate are too stupid to be given the power to make such important decisions. Cameron, and his advisers, now appreciate that they should have never given in to the demands of those in his party that wanted the referendum. He should have found a way to starve their initial campaigning of oxygen, and reduced the threat of people like the UKIP mob.

The UK is now going to have to pay the price for those that voted the wrong way merely because of their ignorance, and the politicians, to demonstrate (however they actually feel about the result) that this is democracy at work, will not sanction another referendum. I think that the UK will be pain in the short term, and my hope is that we have the leader/s in place that can steer us to a brighter future.

[bella]

so people are "stupid" and "ignorant" because, in the lack of any sensible, simply put, well sourced facts and figures from those responsible for campaigning for both sides in the vote, they resorted to voting emotionally?

good to know.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bella

so people are "stupid" and "ignorant" because, in the lack of any sensible, simply put, well sourced facts and figures from those responsible for campaigning for both sides in the vote, they resorted to voting emotionally?

good to know.

As the UK is only now finding out, it was impossible to put "facts" before the public during the campaigning because nobody will know the "facts" until after we actually quit, which might take up to 10 years to complete. And I have no problem with people who voted based on their emotional view of whether to stay or leave. In fact, that is how I voted; I believe that the UK would be better off remaining, but I have no facts to back up that belief.

No, what I blame are the people such as those who voted to exit just to give the Conservative government a kick where it hurt without any thought about any potential danger it might be putting the country in, and others that voted Out because they didn't think that the Brexiteers would win. There were plenty of other acts of stupidity.

It says a lot that the most requested question on Google from the interweb in the UK on Friday 24th June was "What is the EU?".

[Sodemo]

I personally feel we should have accepted the EU's revised proposals and stayed in, however thats just my view.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

With respect, you and, unfortunately, far too many of the British electorate, take a far too simplistic view of the "politics" surrounding the position of the UK being part of the EU, and also how the EU and it's partners operate. And, because of this simplistic view held by so many, the campaigners on both sides of this referendum were able to exploit their weaknesses.

The "price" that both Norway and Switzerland have to "pay" to be a part of the EEA which permits full access to the EU, is that they have to incorporate virtually all the EU directives and laws, they have to allow free movement of all EU citizens to their countries and they have to contribute towards the EU budget on the same basis that the UK currently does.

These are the very thing that those who campaigned to leave the EU want to stop!

Does anyone, truly, honestly, believe that the EU will grant special status the UK and allow unfettered access to the free EU market at "no cost" whatsoever, whilst the other two countries have to pay the "full price"?

It defies logic!

Meanwhile, at our borders, the UK already controls them. We do not belong to the Schengen group of countries which means that our borders have passport controls for all. Unfortunately, successive governments have failed to adequately monitor the borders due to budgetary constraints (we Brits don't like paying more in tax than you do in America), but we also, like the States, do need to bring in foreign workers to fill vacancies that cannot be staffed by UK citizens.

The problem facing the UK is a period of uncertainty; we are moving into unchartered waters, and the reality is that no-one knows what to expect, because it's never been done before. The sad fact is that during the campaign, one side lied about the extra benefits that would be enjoyed by the UK the moment that the country voted to leave (i.e. last Friday), whilst the other side possibly exaggerated the Armageddon that would result from leaving.

The EU is unstable right now. The Euro is under pressure because of the continuing problems facing countries like Greece, which this month needs to borrow billions from the EU and the IMF just so that it can repay some of it's existing loans to the EU and the IMF and so not default. Meanwhile, in many countries around the EU there is growing pressure from their citizens who, like the British electorate, are beginning to wonder what really are the benefits to be gained from staying as a member of the EU.

Mike, after all the huffing, puffing and posturing is over I think that the UK will get special status - why you may ask? Money, with the greatest respect to the respective countries, Switzerland is the19th biggest economy by GDP and Norway is a mere pimple at 28th. The UK is 5th and that gives us tremendous buying power. We buy 1 in 5 of the cars made in Germany, no one can afford to put that at risk.

When push comes to show, all political leaders are only interested in the economy of their countries and their obsession with growth, If you put trade barriers in the way of the 5th biggest economy in the world and the EU's 2nd biggest trade partner you are an idiot.

Follow the money, as the saying goes..

[littleman]

As a stupid and ignorant Leave voter, I mistakenly thought the referendum was about much more than the European Single Market. I thought it was about Sovereignty, political Freedom and a statement of how the British people viewed themselves in the modern World.

Nobody is going to argue about the benefits of the Single Market, that's a No Brainer, although it strikes me the Remain faithful struggle to see beyond that.

Does the UK want to sleepwalk it's way into becoming a mere State of a United Federal Europe or does it still have aspirations and the confidence to decide it's own destiny in the World?

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by bella

so people are "stupid" and "ignorant" because, in the lack of any sensible, simply put, well sourced facts and figures from those responsible for campaigning for both sides in the vote, they resorted to voting emotionally?

good to know.

correct. emotionally ignorant. (plus of course ignorant for thinking they should go out of their way to answer a question they dont even understand )

[bella]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Mike, after all the huffing, puffing and posturing is over I think that the UK will get special status - why you may ask? Money, with the greatest respect to the respective countries, Switzerland is the19th biggest economy by GDP and Norway is a mere pimple at 28th. The UK is 5th and that gives us tremendous buying power. We buy 1 in 5 of the cars made in Germany, no one can afford to put that at risk.

When push comes to show, all political leaders are only interested in the economy of their countries and their obsession with growth, If you put trade barriers in the way of the 5th biggest economy in the world and the EU's 2nd biggest trade partner you are an idiot.

Follow the money, as the saying goes..

preach.

and guess what? there's opportunity in the uncertainty and in whatever the medium term future holds. who is going to benefit from that? not the ones sat grumbling about how clever people voted remain and whinging about how crap democracy is, that's for sure. the british public turned out in unprecedented numbers to vote, and the decision has been made.

if you aren't, then you're already two weeks behind those of us who are

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Mike, after all the huffing, puffing and posturing is over I think that the UK will get special status - why you may ask? Money, with the greatest respect to the respective countries, Switzerland is the19th biggest economy by GDP and Norway is a mere pimple at 28th. The UK is 5th and that gives us tremendous buying power. We buy 1 in 5 of the cars made in Germany, no one can afford to put that at risk.

When push comes to show, all political leaders are only interested in the economy of their countries and their obsession with growth, If you put trade barriers in the way of the 5th biggest economy in the world and the EU's 2nd biggest trade partner you are an idiot.

Follow the money, as the saying goes..

Along the lines of follow the money...

Why would the larger EU countries expect to give the UK a free pass and still pay into the EU? It undercuts the EU long term. And the expectation is that without special status, the UK will stop buying enough EU products to make a difference? My opinion is the truth is somewhere in the middle. That everyone involved UK and EU will hold their noses at the deal that is eventually worked out.

Richard

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The politicos have belatedly woken up to the startling realisation that many members of the electorate are too stupid to be given the power to make such important decisions.

Wait, you're telling me the people who wanted to name a ship Boaty McBoatface made a poor decision with direct democracy?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by dsg

Wait, you're telling me the people who wanted to name a ship Boaty McBoatface made a poor decision with direct democracy?

I know you're using this example to make light of the situation, but calling that ship Boaty McBoatFace would've been the best possible plan of action.

Science is massively underfunded, and part of that is because it's complex, and that makes it boring to a lot of people, and it can be very exclusionary. There's a reason why Brian Cox Wonders of the Solar System gets a lot less viewers than Big Brother or X-Factor. Do you really think people are going to care about a polar research ship? No, of course not.

But do you think people are going to care about Boaty McBoatface? Damn skippy they are. That's going to be on news websites all the time. Think of the marketing you could do with it too - paint some cartoon eyes on the bow, make a childrens cartoon of it - even short YouTube clips. Marketing the hell out of it, because that's what'll increase public interest, and that's what'll increase your funding. Nobody cares about the RSS David Attenbourgh. But everybody cares about the Polar Adventures of Boaty!

But instead, science took the high road and tried to be all high brow about it. Wouldn't want science to be fun and accessible to the masses would we now?

[littleman]

You have to be British and a Blackadder fan to understand this one.......exactly why I voted Leave!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by littleman

You have to be British and a Blackadder fan to understand this one.......exactly why I voted Leave!

And anyone that believes what our political masters says thinks Blackadder is a documentary.

Every time somebody ends up with a decision they don't like they end up insulting the voters instead of looking where the fault really lies, the politicians.
Likewise labourers are blamed for the short comings of management.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by littleman

You have to be British and a Blackadder fan to understand this one.......exactly why I voted Leave!

Even Baldrick had a plan. Current number of plans from the Bexit people? Zero, Zilch, Nada.

And they've all left to let someone else clear up the mess anyway.

Well done them. Thanks.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Corbyn has been asked repeatedly whether he voted to remain; he has refused to answer, which to my simple mind, seems to indicate that he did not.

No, it doesn't mean that at all, even to a simple mind. It means that he is sticking to the principles that voting is a private matter of concern only to the voter themselves.

He does tend to stick to his principles, unlike, well, almost every other politician.

(Note, NOT a labour voter)

[littleman]

The UK cannot possibly reveal it's future plans until it has executed Article 50.
Until we are no longer an official member of the EU, we have to play all our cards very close to our chest whilst we negotiate our future relationship with them.

Remember, the UK is not against a European Union, it's simply against the vision for Europe being pursued by Brussels today and in the future.

Once we've left the current EU, we can present our own vision for Europe which may well receive support from many other dissatisfied current members.

[ASCII Man]

Yes, maybe England can start its own European Union, with blackjack, and hookers!

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by littleman

The UK cannot possibly reveal it's future plans until it has executed Article 50.
Until we are no longer an official member of the EU, we have to play all our cards very close to our chest whilst we negotiate our future relationship with them.

Remember, the UK is not against a European Union, it's simply against the vision for Europe being pursued by Brussels today and in the future.

Once we've left the current EU, we can present our own vision for Europe which may well receive support from many other dissatisfied current members.

That remains to be seen. So far, the United Kingdom does really presented a true vision for Europe. Within the some member states there is a dissatisfaction about the (supposed) democratic deficit. However, making the European Union even more democratic would make it a federation - something I strongly support.

[wolfhound]

One of the first effects of Brexit on F1. Williams pays for it engines in euro and now their engine costs go back up to where they were in sterling before the cost reductions at the start of the year.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125203

[S griffin]

I could imagine Williams struggling, they've always made agreements while on limited budget in recent time. Let's hope they can get through this like they always have done