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Old 21 Nov 2003, 22:21   #61
supertouring
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Didn't touring car teams add weight to the rather loosely attached rear bumpers, so first bit of contact with another car saw bumper and associated weight fly off?

And what about the VLM exhaust problem @ Donnington in 1991? The exhausts were outside of the noise limits (due to them being totally illegal!) and their cars were likely to be deducted points if they failed scruttineering after race. Only first 6 cars would be checked, so VLM car running 6th stopped at line to let team-mate through, team-mate checked and disqualifed, driver promoted to 6th to get points and not checked.
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Old 22 Nov 2003, 08:50   #62
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PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I thought the Foyt story was that he wore rather baggy trousers, so that he could have the nitrous cylinder strapped to his leg.
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Old 22 Nov 2003, 11:38   #63
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Sneaky Vauxhall Lotus scam from Spa, to counteract the car creeping on the downhill start, simply fit a handbrake!!
Only embarrasing if you get caught........ which is what happened to Van Amersfoort and Verstappen.
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Old 23 Nov 2003, 05:09   #64
Edgar Jessop
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Originally posted by Hobson
Engine swapped with the seals entact.
I’m sure lots of cars have had their engines taken out past the scrutineers’ seals but a particularly good version is how the first Escort Mexico Trophy was won.

Coming to the last round at Brands Hatch someone needed to win the race and get the extra point for fastest lap. Apparently 1300GT pistons in a 1600 Mexico provided a helpfully high compression ratio.

So far so good but the driver, a hefty, flamboyant gentleman better known for his escapades in Dealer Team Vauxhalls and manslaughter on the public highway and what not couldn’t do the job subtly of course; he had to win at a gallop and break the lap record by a country mile [Rule 1; - when you’ve got a REALLY good tweak … make it look difficult! ]. All hell broke loose!

Of course they’d planned for that. The car was road-registered and one of the mechanics often took it home so while the driver was talking to Brian Jones the car went out through the paddock gate, off down Scratcher’s Lane and disappeared. The row in the paddock went on for several hours while Larry Sevitt explained that the mechanic had gone off to a family wedding somewhere and since it was still 1971 and noone had invented mobile phones yet they couldn’t contact him etc etc. Finally, as per plan, the car came back around midnight and since it was late and cold and dark and the scrutineers were tired they sealed the engine with every seal known to man and announced the RAC inspection would take place on the following Wednesday.

Monday and Tuesday were quite busy at a workshop in Cricklewood. They unpicked the bodyshell seams at the A-post; took the whole front off the car from the windscreen forward, pulled the engine backwards out of the front half of the car leaving all the nice seals intact, rebuilt it and then re-welded the two halves of the Escort back together.

Wednesday wasn’t so busy. The strip-down in front of the RAC scrutineers revealed no anomalies and the result [and the lap record] stood!

Funnily the same mechanic had the same “creative” attitude towards scrutineers when he ran production saloons for me in the ‘80s. Although strangely I can’t believe or remember anything we did that wasn’t totally legal

I’ll merely observe that you might just want to gave up and burst into tears when, hypothetically, you might have completely by-passed the wastegate on a Turbocharged car so you're running absolutely unlimited boost and another competitor in an identical model Production Saleoon breezes past you down the Revitt Straight!

The same mechanic also ran Formula Three cars for Alan Jones and Brian McGuire and he uncovered the great Roger Williamson cheat. 1971 was the first year of F3 air restrictors and apparently James Hunt had made good use of a crude collar at the front of the airbox which he unscrewed as he sat in the car to expose some extra holes and let more air in. But that could be found easily. A year later when someone went up to Holbay to collect an engine for Jones he picked up the wrong one and brought Williamson’s special engine back by mistake. Knowing the guy I suspect he didn’t pick up the wrong donkey by accident.

They found, Boy did it pull! It had been beautifully built so that when it was at high revs the oil pressure through a special feed opened a flap in the airbox. But whenever it was tested on a gasflow rig a very strong spring held the flap shut. This time the row went the other way and I gather that since they were Brabham customers even Mr Ecclestone got involved to hush that particular one up ......
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Old 26 Nov 2003, 02:17   #65
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djb should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
if the flap was opened by oil pressure, why wouldn't it open on a test bed (I'm not sure what you mean by a "gasflow rig") Do you mean that there had to be a good load on the engine before the flap was activated-and also, wouldn't an obvious flap be noticed-even if it was hidden inside somewhere -mind you, I guess that was the trick, to have the flap down somewhere where if not suspicions were raised, it would never get to that point of dismantling to see it.

This whole topic, as someone already stated, does touch on the whole grey area of coming up with something that is not in the rules-real sideways thinking, as opposed to good old cheating. If I were a competitor, I would be really ****ed off if I was working my ass off in braking late, and carrying as much speed as I could through the corners, and then still have some guy who's pants in the corners go bloomiing by on the straight. Sportmanship vs some interesting lateral thinking can be a sticky subject-makes for entertaining stories, but if you were a "straight" competitor, how would you feel about someone else cheating?

Also makes methink though of how in bicycle racing, the whole drug scandal thing touched on how some competitors got into it because they knew that many others were doing it and they knew they had no chance at all against the competition without it....sad isn't it?
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Old 26 Nov 2003, 09:57   #66
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
DJB . . . .what your describing sounds like avery historic saloon on the grid VS a hotrod yank tank . . . .smoothly through the corners . . . . .onto the straight, flat out, then when you get near the next bend, the Galaxy/Falcon/Mustang (delete as appllicable) uses you as a braking buffer, smashes your car up, punts you off, but looses enough speed to make it round the 1 degree 30 second bend to blast off down the next straight! Snettertons good for that.

you'd never guess I dont like American barges !
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Old 26 Nov 2003, 12:45   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edgar Jessop
I’ll merely observe that you might just want to gave up and burst into tears when, hypothetically, you might have completely by-passed the wastegate on a Turbocharged car so you're running absolutely unlimited boost and another competitor in an identical model Production Saleoon breezes past you down the Revitt Straight!
From memory there was quite a lot of that kind of thing about in Production Saloons at that time.....
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Old 23 Nov 2012, 05:44   #68
Graham Clayton
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creative rule bendings

Some more NASCAR examples:
  • Replacing carburetor restrictor plates with alloy plates that evaporated when exposed to racing fuel
  • Drill tiny holes in the wheels so tire air pressure bleeds down below the legal minimum for better traction
  • When NASCAR inspectors only used to run template down the length of a car to check the legality of the body, the sides of the car would be "tweaked" to increase the aerodynamics.

Here is a comparison of a stock '66 Ford Galaxie and Smokey Yunick's "Yellow Banana""

http://justacarguy.blogspot.com.au/2...1966-ford.html
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Old 23 Nov 2012, 15:49   #69
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Old 29 Nov 2012, 22:16   #70
Alex E
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Cheats...

At the Spa 24 Hours in the mid eighties a very well known team who were favorites to win were having problems with the diff in their leading car. The rules said you could repair but not replace he diff.
So the car comes in to the pits & the mechanics rip the hot diff out of the car & make a big drama about how hot it is & throw it into a large pale of water to cool it down. After a while they retreive the diff and work on it for a while before re-fitting it to the car.
You might have guessed, the pale of water already contained a nice healthy spare diff.
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Old 2 Dec 2012, 22:12   #71
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Originally Posted by Alex E View Post
At the Spa 24 Hours in the mid eighties a very well known team who were favorites to win were having problems with the diff in their leading car. The rules said you could repair but not replace he diff.
So the car comes in to the pits & the mechanics rip the hot diff out of the car & make a big drama about how hot it is & throw it into a large pale of water to cool it down. After a while they retreive the diff and work on it for a while before re-fitting it to the car.
You might have guessed, the pale of water already contained a nice healthy spare diff.
The team had obviously read about the Lotus Elite at Le Mans in the fifties - or maybe the writer of the Spa report had!
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Old 3 Dec 2012, 07:38   #72
Alex E
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The team had obviously read about the Lotus Elite at Le Mans in the fifties - or maybe the writer of the Spa report had!
Stranger still it might actually have happened.......
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Old 3 Dec 2012, 08:16   #73
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Cheating or "exploiting the grey area" will always be tried to gain an advantage and in this day and age of software I would think that's the way it now happens as anyone who designs it must know how to "fool it".
Blatant clever engineering like the 2005 BAR F1 secondary fuel tank when drained made the car 5.4 kg underweight or the 1995 WRC Toyota Celica with the brilliantly engineered turbo restrictor are "probably" a thing of the past
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Old 4 Dec 2012, 10:51   #74
Frank de Jong
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Frank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFrank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Junior Senior View Post
Sneaky Vauxhall Lotus scam from Spa, to counteract the car creeping on the downhill start, simply fit a handbrake!!
Only embarrasing if you get caught........ which is what happened to Van Amersfoort and Verstappen.
They were not the only team to do so - and Verstappen was later reinstated.
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Old 5 Dec 2012, 12:46   #75
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Sneaky Vauxhall Lotus scam from Spa, to counteract the car creeping on the downhill start, simply fit a handbrake!!
Only embarrasing if you get caught........ which is what happened to Van Amersfoort and Verstappen.
My FF2000 Wimhurst in 1979 had a choke-control cable fitted to the rear of the brake pedal which was activated by pulling the choke knob on the dash. Never once used it and soon disconnected it!
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