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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Muzza
"- it is EASIER to design a roofed car to be safer. One cannot take for granted that roofed cars are safer."
A roofed car has a smoother surface. There is nothing to dig into soft grass or garvel and get ripped off. If you peel the roof off, you are probably going to die any from the impact alone.
"- it is EASIER to design a safer double-hoop roll bar."
I think it might be easier to protect the area above the driver's head than worry about the mythical passenger too.
I don't see why the monoque can't be made higher than the driver's hear.
Both roll hoops are very strong, but i am worried about the hoop istelf digging into gravel or another soft surface. like Diniz' F-1 accident a couple of years ago. High cockpit sides (and a high monoque) is the only thing that saved him. A wider bar does spread out the load over a larger area, but it also offers a better chance that some part of it will dig in. A roof spreads the load out over
an even bigger area while all but eliminating the possibility of digging in. When was the last time you saw a roof ripped off?
Audi did extemsive research on roll bars, and the R8's is EIGHT times (Audi's figures)the strength required by the FIA tests. But the test merely checks for impact protection. There is no test currently that simulates a car sliding upside down and having the roll bar get hooked on the ground or in gravel. Gravel is used because it grabs parts of the car and slows it down. If all it grabs is the roll bar, bad result.
"One cannot take for granted that such a design is safer. Clinton's tragedy sadly confirmed this."
I think the GrandAm requires full-width roll hoops. I might be wrong on that. I know the Lista car had to add bars to be legal.
"Our friend cybesrdorf also said (quite correctly, in my opinion) that "perhaps Jeff Clinton's accident simply put the structure under a stress nobody ever envisaged it would have to endure."
It sure seems that most fatalities lately have been from something unenvisioned, doesn't it? People always say this or that can't happen today, but we keep getting rude surprises. As far as safety, you always have to keep looking over your sholder so nothing unexpected crops up. Even then, it is still going to happen.
"(...) I still believe that Alboreto's crash was not survivable, no matter what car he would have been in."
Maybe if he had been wearing a head restraint and the bar held. I still say the biggest travesty in motorsports is the HANS not being required in ALL series.
"I am not saying that Clinton death is to be simply accepted. It is not, of course. But the fact that motorsport is a dangerous discipline - and that fatal accidents will continue to occur - is certain."
Absolutely.
".... I think we both agree that accidents need to be openly debated. And, to ensure that, information needs to be available."
Right ON, Muzza. How else can we make things better if we aren't allowed to discuss the facts? While there are some (no one here, of course) who take ghoulish fascination in accidents, all of us here are interested in what happened merely so we can form opinions on how to make things better.
"I was astonished to see people simplistically blaming the FIA for some crashes and their consequences."
While i agree in principle, the FIA is going to be directly responsible for the next accident caused by dirty tricks. They refuse to enforce their own rules, so the litigation on that one is going to be extreme.
"Attitudes like "oh, this is too disgusting to see or to read about and nobody should have access to it" follow this rationale and may cross the edge into limiting free access to information, and censorship."
Right ON, Muzza.
"Although I recognize that accidents are unsettling, only open and rational debates about safety can help the sport that we love. Behaving like those three chinese monkeys – no see, no hear, no talk (and also “no think”, I would add) - and aiming to impose the same behaviour onto others is hypocritical and misleading."
Right ON, Muzza. In fact, you are so right on that you have left me with little to say except to agree with you.
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