[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Accident

Not sure you really understand what has been going on with the games in regards to Forza 5 and it's "progression" that caused it to be what it was. Turn 10 is a Microsoft-owned company, and they see Forza as a console seller... Forza 5 was to be a launch title for the Xbox One, meaning that Turn 10 most likely spent most of their effort rushing the game to work on the new console rather than on content. I'm not at all saying that's an excuse, I didn't buy Forza 5 as I too was unhappy with the content it provided... But players complained about the old cars not returning and they started bringing them back in the DLC packs. Kind of one those "can't win" situations for them... People complain about the missing cars, then they complain about having to pay for them to get them back, then they complain about the lack of new cars as they have spent time re-modelling the old cars instead of working on new ones. Again, not saying it's an excuse or that everyone should have bought it despite the lack of content, just that it is what it is for a reason.

It's almost brilliant marketing by them that they're even seen as being in a lose lose situation. They created that situation, and the way to resolve it was to sell you old stuff that they made years ago. That's absolutely incredible marketing, because they've convinced the consumer they're doing something good by bringing back old stuff, and you have to pay to get it.

It's not just that the old cars were missing, it's not just that they sold you the old cars again. It's the fact they're raising the price of a game to have less content, then selling you the old unedited content from a previous game. They didn't even bother making new car models or textures for the majority of it - they just straight up converted it over, complete with all the little inaccuracies and old racing liveries, etc. I'm not bothered if cars aren't 100% accurate, but it was a dead give away that they're just selling you stuff from old games, at additional cost, whilst making it seem like they're doing good.

It doesn't require you to be a cynical person to understand that they're purposely cutting out content that they've already made, just so they can re-sell it to you. I am 100% for DLC. I believe a developer should get paid for their work. But I am 100% against developers cutting content from the next game, just so it can be re-sold as DLC. Forza is turning into the Sims.

As for the "season pass," it was called the "car pass" and clearly stated it would contain the first 6 monthly car packs and nothing more. If you bought it expecting everything then that's on you for not reading the packaging on what you are buying. I'm not really sure why they do only the first 6 car packs in the bundle and I could see how it could be misleading if you don't read the description, but it's been that way for several titles so it's not anything new.

Again, that's incredible marketing from their stand point. They've convinced people that a car pass doesn't contain all the cars. Games now ship with 10+ versions of each game, with multiple different pass types. It's unreasonable to expect everybody to research every game to that level. There's even discussions on dedicated Forza forums about what the best way to actually buy all the content is - when you have people unsure how you actually get all the content, it's obvious something is wrong. You shouldn't need to research a game to understand what you're buying. A car pass doesn't contain all the cars.

Before, a pass was a pass. A DLC pass got you all the DLC. A car pass got you all the cars. Now it isn't that simple, and a car pass is only good for a little while.

I agree on the new fantasy tracks being crap. Forza 1 had some good fantasy tracks, or great even like the Alpine Ring in particular, but since then all but one of the new fantasy tracks they have made have been terrible. Saying "now it's all fictional tracks" is wrong though, there are only 4 of these stupid fantasy ones (and 1 realistic fantasy one) out of 32 environments in Forza 7. I mean I'd rather replace them with real tracks too, but it's not even a big portion of the track list.

I completely mistyped, my bad! I didn't mean every track is fictional, I meant "now it's all the fictional tracks", as in, all of the fictional tracks now follow this 'style' of being overly daft and unrealistic with long flowing corners and minimal braking zones. I am all for fictional tracks, but I much preferred the Gran Turismo route of fictional tracks (back in the day), where the majority of them were from a realistic environment. The Forza way of doing things just isn't fun for me. I prefer them to feel realistic, have sensible road layouts, good braking zones etc. These 'public' roads with high banked corners, not much fun.

Also not sure where you are getting Forza 6 as a "DLC micro transaction fest." The microtransactions in Forza 6 could be 100% ignored... Buying the tokens only allowed you to buy cars, and the game gave you money and cars at such a high rate that I seriously can not imagine anyone being so impatient they would need to buy them. Hell, they give you several hundred thousand in-game credits every week just for clicking a button in the Forza App on your Xbox.

I've never subscribed to the idea that ignoring it makes it ok. You spent £60 on a game, plus another £60+ on DLC, and then it's still asking you for money for in-game tokens/currency. We've normalised that, and it isn't ok. Since when it's fine to spend over £100 on a game, and then the asks you to spend money money on it?

I realize this post may sound argumentative or aggressive or something, but I'm not really intending for it to be... But, while there are areas they need to work on, these games still provide a lot of value and have great sub-communities of racing fans that run excellent leagues and events of their own, and I'd hate to see someone turned away from the game because of a post exaggerating things and calling things incorrectly.

No you don't sound argumentative of aggressive at all, and I certainly didn't read it that way. It appears we have different ideas on what we find acceptable in games (not saying my idea is right, just that we differ).

I agree that the game has a lot of technical issues that need solved, and that is a job for the developers. But the route Forza has gone down is worth complaining about as that's a marketing and financial strategy from the bosses. Forza has taken the route of "cut things out, sell it later" and purchasable in-game currency. A route popularised by the Sims* and phone games. Neither of those sets of games should be considered the standard to aim for - those are the bottom of the bottom. Forzas ambition appears to be to go downwards, rather than upwards, and create a user experience which is designed to get even more cash from the customer, rather than create the best user experience. THAT is my problem with it. The development process is more about "Can we monetise this?" rather than "Is this the best possible experience for the user?" In-game currency is a particularly impressive scam, because unlike DLC is requires no continued development from the team. So you're paying for, literally, nothing.

*The Sims is the best example to use as they reset the content every release. Sims 2 comes out, and then you buy DLC for wallpaper, carpet, pets, social clubs, college courses. Then the Sims 3 comes out, all that DLC gets wiped, and then re-sold to you. So you then by DLC for wallpaper, carpet, pets, social clubs and college courses. But they put a sticker on it saying "YOUR FAVOURITE STUFF IS BACK!" and you pay money to get the same thing, copy and pasted into the next game.

Turn10/Microsoft are not the only ones guilty of this. Ubisoft is currently doing it to Rainbow 6, with Season Passes which are only for a year. They class a calendar year as a season, so you need multiple season passes. The amount of mini-DLC packs in that is horrendous too. The only reason they're getting away with it without being slaughtered is that the major DLC is actually free (maps and characters), whilst the season pass doesn't get you anything except a weeks early access, and the mini-DLC is cosmetic only. There are lots of examples of this sort of practice and I don't think it's a good route for games to be going down. So I don't want it to seem like I'm singling out Forza here, just that the thread was about Forza.