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31 Aug 2007, 00:20 (Ref:2000521) | #1 | |
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Top Ten of the last decade - Ours & Theirs (Merged)
Just having a read on the publishing 101 website (The guys the do the V8 Yearbook) and they are bringing out a 10 year book for the V8's 1997-2006 that will include the top 10 drivers. I was just wondering who people would pick as there top 10 for the last decade. Mine would be
Mark Skaife Marcos Ambrose Craig Lowndes Russell Ingall Glenn Seton John Bowe Garth Tander Greg Murphy Jason Bright Todd Kelly |
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31 Aug 2007, 02:55 (Ref:2000566) | #2 | ||
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For me:
Mark Skaife Craig Lowndes Glenn Seton John Bowe Marcos Ambrose Rick Kelly Greg Murphy Garth Tander Russell Ingall Jason Bright |
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31 Aug 2007, 03:10 (Ref:2000569) | #3 | ||
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I think i would put Steven Richards in ahead of Rick Kelly. Rick Kelly has not been around that long. I haven't thought about it much yet but there might be others to consider.
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31 Aug 2007, 03:43 (Ref:2000584) | #4 | ||
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Maybe Murphy ahead of Tander due to winning Bathurst 3 times in last 10 years?? Steven Richards ahead of Todd maybe also. Rick has won a championship but still probably wouldn't quite make it due to longevity I guess. |
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"It was dry for the second go-around. Grice, nervous, worrying about his Bathurst jinx, ran 2:25.9. The amazing Brock, using every last centimetre of bitumen, yet keeping the car straight and balanced and at full noise, came back with a staggering 2:20.0 as if to say: "Match that". And people just shook their heads, bit their lips and wondered who would be second". RIP Peter Brock. 1945-2006 |
31 Aug 2007, 04:40 (Ref:2000595) | #5 | |
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If it was for the 90's decade then Seton and Bowe should be higher up. But for the last ten years, I do question John Bowe being in the ten. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I love John Bowe but in the past 10 years aside from a couple of Bathurst podiums and being runner up to Glenn Seton in '97 - he hasn't won much.
Yes - that's because of the poor teams he's been a part of. NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS ABILITY - but based on stats, I wonder if someone else should be up there? |
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31 Aug 2007, 07:04 (Ref:2000628) | #6 | ||
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For ATCC/V8's as a standalone, it'd have to be -
Mark Skaife Craig Lowndes Marcus Ambrose Russell Ingall Garth Tander Rick Kelly Glen Seton Jason Bright Greg Murphy Steven Richards But, For Bathurst, arguably the pinnacle of this sport - Greg Murphy (4) Mark Skaife (3 in period) Rick Kelly (2) Steven Richards (2) Craig Lowdnes (1 in period) Jim Richards (1 in period) Tony Longhurst (1 in period) Jamie Whincup (podiums, 1 win) Glen Seton (nice string of podiums) Steven Ellery (as above) The above have won or been consistent at the mount, andtheir efforts over enduro time have shown why they are regarded as champions. I could have replaced Ellery with Brad Jones at any given time. Interesting to debate whether we are looking at the top 10 greatest drivers in the time, in which Brocky should get a jersey as he raced in 97 (and was winning!) and Dick Johnson should rate as well... or just the top 10 in that time period - either way, the top 3 are reasonably easy to mark! |
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31 Aug 2007, 09:16 (Ref:2000703) | #7 | ||
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THE entertainer
Not in Supercars, but V8s, Paul Stubber leaves the above for dead.
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31 Aug 2007, 15:05 (Ref:2000894) | #8 | ||
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He has great racing in Historics and his run last year at Muscle Car Masters at EC in the old A9X was awsome till it broke, can't wait to see him and the boys on Sunday won't miss it.
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1 Sep 2007, 11:18 (Ref:2001262) | #9 | ||
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And where is the late Mr Brock in any of the lists? He has experienced the V8 Supercabs before.
My list would have to be: Peter Brock Mark Skaife Craig Lowndes Greg Murphy Glenn Seton Steven Richards Rick Kelly John Bowe Garth Tander Todd Kelly |
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1 Sep 2007, 11:24 (Ref:2001268) | #10 | ||
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1. Craig Lowndes
2. Peter Brock 3. Marcos Ambrose 4. Mark Skaife 5. Russell Ingall 6. Greg Murphy 7. Garth Tander 8. Glenn Seton 9. Rick Kelly 10. John Bowe |
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1 Sep 2007, 15:44 (Ref:2001344) | #11 | ||
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EDIT:
Mark Skaife Peter Brock Craig Lowndes Glenn Seton John Bowe Marcos Ambrose Rick Kelly Greg Murphy Garth Tander Russell Ingall |
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1 Sep 2007, 20:08 (Ref:2001466) | #12 | ||
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Not bad...
Hi there.
We have based our top 10 on statistics, an so far your guesses ar pretty close - we didn't set out to be controversial on this one, just accurate and I think the list is pretty good. I'd change the order if it was based on a personal choice, but I'm not sure I'd change the list too much. Good to see some interest, make sure you keep talking, it is one way we work our what to write about... we're even happy to take suggestions. Andrew |
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2 Sep 2007, 01:37 (Ref:2001641) | #13 | ||
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As for top 10 results I guess you would have to go
1. Mark Skaife (best results but always acheived in best car which is bad for his credibility as a truly good driver can drag a rustbucket near the front unlike Skaife) 2. Marcos Ambrose (saves Ford) 3. Glenn Seton (very well performed) 4. Craig Lowndes (not as great as he used to be?) 5. Greg Murphy (very good results in quick cars) 6. John Bowe (super quick for BJR) 7. Brad Jones (superb efforts for many years, especially at Bathurst) 8. Jason Bright (impressive technical ability) 9. Garth Tander (truly classy driver, unlucky to be missing out on championships when running the GRM VY instead of a deserved front running car) 10. Russell Ingall (fan favourite) Should be on the list: Jason Bargwanna Mark Larkham Tomas Mezera Neil Crompton Cameron McLean Very good contributers, especially McLean. Last edited by WebberForWDC; 2 Sep 2007 at 01:43. |
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2 Sep 2007, 05:59 (Ref:2001675) | #14 | ||
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I'm surprised Jason Bright is missing in alot of lists...
3 second places in championship, 1 bathurst, clear ability in cars that arent the greatest.... 03/04 were hampered obviously, and he has been able to drag most teams he's been in to some fantastic form. |
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2 Sep 2007, 10:21 (Ref:2001724) | #15 | |
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Its a difficult one.
1 Skaife has to be number one. 3 championships and 3 bathurst 2 Lowndes has to be number two. two Champinships and a bathurst From here it gets hard 3 Murph, because of ten years in the game, 4 bathurst wins and at least two runners up in the championship. 4 Ingall 1 championship, one bathurst, 3 runners up in championship then we go to some guys that havent been there all that time 5 Ambrose 2 championship, 2 3rd places in 5 years and put the Ford back into v8s. Probably the most imporatant driver to come into v8s in that time. 6 Rick, you really cant exclude him 1 championship and 2 bathursts. pretty impressive for a 24 yo and he is good for the championship (wears the black hat) 7 have to slip Seton in there, he has a championship in that time and some good results at bathurst, but his best was over early into the time frame. 8 multi bathurst winner Steven richards and regular front runner. gets in because of the Bathurst wins 9 Bright 1 bathurst 3 2nd places in championship, definate front runner up to this year. 10 GT slips in for a bathurst win and soem good racing throughout that time, but could raffle this spot to a few drivers but not Brock. seriously guys his effort in that time is one round win and one other podium, if you include him on the list then you devalue your list |
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2 Sep 2007, 13:23 (Ref:2001838) | #16 | |
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Putting Lowndes anywhere in the top 5 has to be done on sentiment alone, the simple fact is that for his first 5 years with Ford he did absolutely nothing. So his last ten years is basically really good until he switched to Ford, then nothing for 5 years and finally in 06 he put together a good year then this year has been reasonable without being spectacular.
I think looking at the ten years as a whole it would be much more reasonable to put him in at 7 or 8. Any thoughts. Last edited by agosling; 2 Sep 2007 at 13:31. |
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2 Sep 2007, 13:44 (Ref:2001853) | #17 | ||
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You make a reasonable point.... However, He's still won 2 championships...
This is what I was saying earlier - Do we mert these guys on Championships - which would have MS 1, and CL tied with MA on 2... Or do we merit these guys on Impact on the sport - Which would push Craig clear of MA, but also include Brock - Who cant deny it was the Peter Brock Fairwell Championship in 97, the Peter Brock welcome back Bathurst double in 2002/2004? I just realised I left Jason Bright off my own Bathurst list, despite winning on his 2nd attempt, after just barracking for him.... ooops! He'd slide above Ellery and Jones easily. |
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2 Sep 2007, 22:22 (Ref:2002119) | #18 | |
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It is always going to be part facts and part sentiment that goes into making this sort of list. But here is my take... and yes, Jim is there purely because my heart tells me he is one of our best ever.
Mark Skaife Marcos Ambrose Garth Tander Jason Bright Greg Murphy Rick Kelly Craig Lowndes Todd Kelly Russell Ingall Jim Richards The other thing about this sort of list is the "What if" questions it raises. What if Lowndes hadn't listened to his wallet, in all likelihood he would have dominated those 5 years that he instead spent in the wilderness and he would be far and away at the top of the list. What if Jason Bright stop leaving teams just as he starts to have success with them. |
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3 Sep 2007, 00:26 (Ref:2002178) | #19 | ||
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So you've put Jim in there on sentiment.... Ummm...obviously not a Lowdnes fan?
The more important "What If" would have been if Bright had been able to get enough cash to continue in Indy? I think i remember rumblings of GT looking to HRT after Lowndes... that would have indeed been interesting! |
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3 Sep 2007, 09:18 (Ref:2002380) | #20 | |
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Jim is the only one I did on sentiment and even then I think there could be a fair case put forward for his inclusion, only much of his driving over the last 10 years has not been in V8's
No, I'm not a Lowndes fan, nor am I a Ford fan, however if you look at my list 5 of the 10 have spent time driving Ford's. While this is a thread that will never get full agreement, I think I have been fair and as far as possible used the facts to produce my list. Jason Bright is one of the drivers who could have been one of the very best of the last 10 years but has made some questionable career decisions. |
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3 Sep 2007, 10:22 (Ref:2002436) | #21 | |
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so the 14 podiums, including two at bathurst in the years from 2001 to 2004.
the fact that he finished 2nd in the championship in 2005 and 2006 with the most round wins in both those years. they count for nothing then agosling and then you put jim richards in who in the whole ten years had about as many races as Lowndes had podiums in the time lowndes did "absolutly nothing" plus you add Tander at no 3 who in the same time frame as lowndes did "absolutly nothing" had only 6 podiums and in his whole life has finished top two in the championship once and just one bathurst win in that whole time and only two bathurst top tens Seriously beforere judging others on sentiment, one should look inthe mirror |
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3 Sep 2007, 11:27 (Ref:2002484) | #22 | |
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Average championship finishing position from 2001 to 2004 was 11th, with a high of 5th and a low of 20th. Not exactly great especially if you factor in what he was getting paid.
I'm fairly certain that when Ford stumped up very large amounts of cash to get him from Holden they would have hoped for better than one Bathurst and no championships in seven years. I'll stick with my list, as I said before it is something that you will never get everyone to agree on, but it's always interesting to see everyones point of view. |
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3 Sep 2007, 11:43 (Ref:2002498) | #23 | |
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but you put tander 3rd. His best in the championship is 2nd ever. In the saem time frame Lowndes has had a win in the championship and two 2nds plus laowndes has had significantly more round wins amd significantly better bathurst results.
snce 99 GT has had two good years and 2007 which is not in the time frame is one of them |
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3 Sep 2007, 13:12 (Ref:2002583) | #24 | |
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Yes I put Tander 3rd and Lowndes 7th, and I see no reason to change that. You have a different opinion and you are entitied to it.
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3 Sep 2007, 13:57 (Ref:2002624) | #25 | |||
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OK, I think this may be the first time ever, but..... I agree with Peckstar! Shhhhh Don't tell anyone! |
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