Tragedies

paulzinho · 26 Oct 2001, 00:11 (Ref:165597)

How many Formula One deaths have there been? In races, qualifying, practices or testing.

Who, in what and where.

marcus · 26 Oct 2001, 01:41 (Ref:165621)

Too many

EERO · 26 Oct 2001, 02:15 (Ref:165629)

Paul, I'll leave this topic open, but it worries me what might be said and we will be watching this carefully.

As a young F1 fan in the early '80's, it got so I couldn't face the newspaper the day aftera race for fear of what might have happened.having been at two races at which F1 drivers died, i can assure you that this is not a very pleasent topic.

Nicholas · 26 Oct 2001, 06:57 (Ref:165662)

Depends if you include spectators and marshalls.

jetsetter · 26 Oct 2001, 09:01 (Ref:165696)

Far too many, hopefully with the improved safety aspects of both circuits & cars the bad days are behind us.

**Adam43** · 26 Oct 2001, 09:10 (Ref:165698)

Prof. Sid Watkins first F1 book entitled "Triumph and Tragedy in Formula One" has some good appendices with these facts. He also correlates this with the advances in safety ofall aspects of F1 (including circuits, cars, driver protection, etc...).

But, of course, it is sadly too many.

DNQ · 26 Oct 2001, 11:18 (Ref:165745)

I hate to dwell on grim statistics and the like, but I fear it maybe between 60 and 80, if my memory serves me correctly. At least 20 of those are spectator deaths.

**Bononi** · 26 Oct 2001, 11:33 (Ref:165755)

The most important aspect of this issue, is that Formula One had improved a lot in safety terms. Considering it had 2 deaths in the last two years, so new improvements should target the marshals and audience safety.

timbo2001 · 26 Oct 2001, 11:45 (Ref:165764)

i don't like the thought of anybody dying in sport at all. hence I don't want to go into detail about who exactly as died, and as you have all said, there have been way to many.

paulzinho · 26 Oct 2001, 12:02 (Ref:165772)

Quote:

Originally posted by EERO
Paul, I'll leave this topic open, but it worries me what might be said and we will be watching this carefully.

As a young F1 fan in the early '80's, it got so I couldn't face the newspaper the day aftera race for fear of what might have happened.having been at two races at which F1 drivers died, i can assure you that this is not a very pleasent topic.

Sorry EERO, you can close this topic if you wish, i posted it quite late at night without thinking of the inappropriateness of the topic.

This may come out wrong but I was wondering who had been killed in F1, drivers that is. I realise now that this isn't really the place to discuss such events so I would understand your closing this topic.

Carrie · 26 Oct 2001, 20:10 (Ref:166009)

There used to be a book around called Grand Prix Requiem which gave a biography of all the grand prix drivers who've been killed. I'm not sure what prompted me to read it, it's a number of years since I did and rather than showing a morbid fascination, it gave me an insight into some of the lesser known drivers who I might otherwise have known nothing about.

Valve Bounce · 26 Oct 2001, 21:52 (Ref:166061)

Without going into specifics and naming names and dates, which are a very sore subject with me, I would like to say that safety in F1 has improved dramatically, for which I am trully thankful. If we can imagine the flimsy cars of the sixties, and compare them with the cars of today, we can see dramatic changes. The tubs have been strengthened beyond anything Colin Chapman could have imagined in those days, and fuel tanks have been made much safer. Now we have the HANS device which will add to safety in crashes for drivers. I remember Stirling Moss once said that he didn't want to wear a safety harness in an F1 car because if the car crashed, he didn't want to be anywhere near the car.
As the next safety measure, I'd like to see runoff areas at circuits sealed with asphalt rather than be filled with sand. This would stop the cars much quicker when they run off as the cars can brake, and prevent a car from digging in and summersaulting in the gravel/sand.
I hope you guys don't mind my hijacking this thread. Some good discussion might result.

**ghinzani** · 26 Oct 2001, 22:14 (Ref:166071)

Paulzhino

Atlas F1 had a very long thread about this subject but it covered all forms of motorsport and went on for like 10 pages... if you have a spare day its a very informative, if sad read. Hope its okay for me to plug another site? its on their nostalgia forum , entitled something like "the ultimate price"

Redneck · 27 Oct 2001, 00:00 (Ref:166107)

Sorry, I just don't get the touchiness of this subject and people's fear of discussing it. Quite frankly I can't think of a better way to go than in a race car. Beats the he11 out of dying in bed or from a heart attack. Gotta go sometime! Might as well be with a smile on your face and doing something you love.

Maybe with some young thing that has a jealous husband might do also.

GanjaGrizz · 27 Oct 2001, 02:27 (Ref:166131)

I see nothing wrong with talking about it, I lost my all time favorite driver in a tragedie. We love F1 racing and we damn well know its a very dangerous sport.
I was at the starting line grandstands at the 1982 Canadian GP and to see Riccardo Paletti lose his life in a horrendous crash with the stalled car of Didier Pironi was quite a shock. To tell you the truth it felt good to talk about it after and that crash still haunts me today. Some people thinks its a taboo subject but i dont. We lost Gilles Villeneuve and Ayrton Senna the 2 best drivers ever and we will lose others.

**ghinzani** · 27 Oct 2001, 07:02 (Ref:166146)

Quote:

Originally posted by GanjaGrizz

I was at the starting line grandstands at the 1982 Canadian GP and to see Riccardo Paletti lose his life in a horrendous crash with the stalled car of Didier Pironi was quite a shock. To tell you the truth it felt good to talk about it after and that crash still haunts me today.

That one looked nasty, altho I only ever saw the pictures in Grand Prix International... the Osella folded up didnt it? Only Palettis third GP start - boy Pironi had a bad year in 82. Enzo Osella only ran one car for the rest of the year, was that because Pioneer had already paid for the seat or was it just Enzo respecting Riccardo's memory? You wouldnt get that sentimentality in Bernies f1 these days...

Nicholas · 27 Oct 2001, 07:05 (Ref:166147)

They intend to put in hi-friction tarmac to replace the gravel at Silverstone aren't they?

GanjaGrizz · 27 Oct 2001, 16:14 (Ref:166263)

Ghinzani

It was Paletti's first GP start. The impact was tremendous , Paletti never had a chance even Pironi tried to put the fire out but it was already to late.
It was not a good year for Pironi, because of him 2 drivers died in less then a month, including my favorite Gilles Villeneuve.
Some will say it wasn't Pironi's fault but anyone who followed F1 back then knows that Gilles was not the same after Pironi past him on the last lap of that infamous race.

senna12 · 27 Oct 2001, 17:06 (Ref:166273)

Gilles felt totally betrayed by Pironi in Italy......the order had been given to stay in line on the previous lap, so Gilles had eased up slightly, not expecting Didier to pass him......of course, Zolder was the next race, and Gilles was not in the best frame of mind, and was not going to let Pironi outqualify him....the rest is extremely upsetting...........

**Bononi** · 27 Oct 2001, 17:08 (Ref:166274)

GanjaGrizz, I don't think it's a good idea putting the blame on Pironi. I know all the story but, in both cases, no one can imply him the blame for the deaths.

senna12 · 27 Oct 2001, 17:15 (Ref:166282)

Gilles at Zolder...

GanjaGrizz · 27 Oct 2001, 17:34 (Ref:166291)

Sorry Bononi, I blame Pironi 100% for Gilles Death. As for Paletti's death well you can say it was racing incident but if Pironi wouldn't of stalled it Paletti would be alive.

Nice photo Senna 12.

R · 27 Oct 2001, 17:49 (Ref:166295)

Quote:

Originally posted by GanjaGrizz
It was Paletti's first GP start.

It was his second. He had started in the San Marino GP as well, earlier in the season.

Since this was long before my interest in F1 started, I don't have all that strong feelings about what happened in 1982, and I'm kind of glad, since what happened to Paletti and Villeneuve must have been very upsetting, particularly considering the circumstances. I do feel that blaming Pironi for Paletti's death (he hardly wanted to stall, did he) or for Villeneuve's death (as far as I know, Jochen Mass was involved in that crash, not Pironi) is taking it a bit too far. Pironi's dead too for heaven's sake, let the guy rest in peace.

**Bononi** · 27 Oct 2001, 18:02 (Ref:166297)

Yes, I respect your personal opinion in these events. But in the light of the motorsport, Pironi wasn't responsible for that.

GanjaGrizz · 27 Oct 2001, 18:10 (Ref:166298)

Quote:

Originally posted by R

Pironi's dead too for heaven's sake, let the guy rest in peace.

It was a tragedie topic so it was normal for Pironi's name to come up. In 1979 when Jody Scheckter won the DWC Gilles was the best teammate you could of asked for, he knew what following team orders were, thats the way it was with Ferrai in those days and to tell you the truth it still is.
Then to see Pironi backstab Gilles just a few years later when he knew what the team order was, there was no way in hell Pironi could beat Gilles otherwise.
Jochen Mass was the unfortunate racer to be infront of Gilles on that Friday morning practice.

Pironi will never rest in peace, not in the minds of Montréals like me (well the ones that followed F1 in those days anyway).
Thats just my little opinion, it wasnt meant to offend.