Motor sport competitors hoodwinked again

[Matthew Ronke]

just recieved this letter and thought it may be interesting so I have posted it here. any thoughts ?

Motor sport competitors hoodwinked again

The CAMS press release of 28th October 2004 is not all what it seems as it claims benefits of stability in fees with the undertaking that:

1) "no licence fee will increase in 2005" WRONG as reference to the CAMS Web site shows that apart from the (average) $20 reduction in junior licences many other licences have been "rounded up" particularly in the "grass roots" area which the Board claims to be assisting.

2) Even if the average licence increase is only a small % gain for CAMS this applied to their licence income of in excess of $2.5m will anyway become a significant figure.

3) The claim by the Audit and Finance Committee Chairman Mr Andrew Papadopoulos that the above will "encourage an increase in participation levels" is flawed as there has ALSO been a general rounding up of permit fees which has NOT been mentioned in the CAMS press release.

4) Again this subterfuge, considering the total permit fee income of $4m, will also result in a healthy income increase for CAMS.

5) The 20% reduction in affiliation fees will hardly create a financial dilemma for CAMS as in the big picture it is not really relevant (in 2003 the total income from affiliation was a mere $272,000 out of $9m) and therefore the "reduction" will no doubt be funded out of the above increases.

6) What the Board have failed to realise that this reduction has not helped "grass roots" as claimed in that a small club will be up for between $7 and $10 per member while a large club with say 1200 member will be paying less than $1 per member. It would appear that the Board have overlooked the conflict of interest of this recommendation by the Chairman of the Audit and Finance Committee who is a senior member of two such large clubs.

7) When the insurance crisis occurred CAMS increased fees (many of them not relevant to insurance) by between 80 and !00% to accommodate the ultimate 60% insurance premium increase (not 100% originally claimed when the Audit and Finance Committee imposed the increases)

8) CAMS ended up with a huge surplus and the decision by the Board shows they are obviously now most reluctant to plough real benefits back into a sport decimated by their earlier increases.

9) Had CAMS been more concerned about the well being of club motor sport the insurance crisis could have been accommodated with a mere 20% increase, together with attention to curtailing costs, which would have kept the sport in a sustainable condition. Once again CAMS are to be congratulated on their ability to put spin before reality.

10) It would also appear that the "incrowd" at CAMS have used the above press release (with its several "favourable" mentions of Andrew Papadopoulos) as election publicity for one of their own as voters in NSW go to the polls to elect a new Board Member on Saturday. ................BP

[prn 31]

Matthew, is the eleection for the NSW member this weekend?

I am a member of one of the Club's that Mr Papadopoulos is a member. I've also been in Mr Papadopoulos's firing line in the past and can attest it was very unpleasant. We barely acknowledge each other to this day.

I believe that Bob Cutler will be standing for the NSW CAMS election. I don't know Cutler's background but I believe he has been around for a while. Papadopoulos's involvement in the AROCA 6 Hour at Eastern Creek (same weekend as the Winton 6 Hr) and its imminent losses as well as the troubled Italian Challenge (former state series as Formula Alfa) will have damaged his reputation, I believe.

I wouldn't think that he is a certainty to get back in at CAMS, especially since participation levels at grass roots clubs like AROCA have decreased just as they have across the board as a result of CAMS licencing fee policy.

[JteL]

I believe that Bob Cutler will be standing for the NSW CAMS election. I don't know Cutler's background but I believe he has been around for a while. Papadopoulos's involvement in the AROCA 6 Hour at Eastern Creek (same weekend as the Winton 6 Hr) and its imminent losses as well as the troubled Italian Challenge (former state series as Formula Alfa) will have damaged his reputation, I believe.

Bob Cutler has not descended to tha level of the esteemed member for ARDC - he doesn't have to - he has presented facts in submissions he has made, whereas, the Member for ARDC, has overlooked any points raised by Cutler and attempted to go off on his own sidetrack without relating his comments to the truth.

I wouldn't think that he is a certainty to get back in at CAMS, especially since participation levels at grass roots clubs like AROCA have decreased just as they have across the board as a result of CAMS licencing fee policy.

But CAMS are telling us that participation at club-level is up? Are you suggesting, heaven forbid, that participation is actually down?

But this cannot be right - CAMS have categorically stated, in writing, that grass-roots level participation is up.

You wouldn't be suggesting, not for a moment I hope, that they are spin-doctoring the facts - again - are you?

I mean - surely the purveyors of truth and honesty in motor sport would never do such a thing as <gulp> lie or twist the facts?

And - of course - to then see an official media release come out from Jenny Thompson at CAMS quoting so liberally one of their own just before a NSW State Election - I mean - nah! Surely even CAMS couldn't stopp this low and be seen to be so blatantly supporting someone?

Could they?

[Bimmerhead]

They can do anything they like. After all they're the FIA representative in Oz Seems they get more like AVESCO every day, except their lipstick is cheaper and they've broken a heel!!

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally posted by prn 31
Matthew, is the eleection for the NSW member this weekend?

I am a member of one of the Club's that Mr Papadopoulos is a member. I've also been in Mr Papadopoulos's firing line in the past and can attest it was very unpleasant. We barely acknowledge each other to this day.

I believe that Bob Cutler will be standing for the NSW CAMS election.

Yes the election was on today. I beleive Bob Cutler won a spot on the CAMS Board. I'm not a 100% on this so I guess we will have to wait for a press release from CAMS. I guess this election results is a backlash from the CAMS/Papodopolus fees smoke and Mirror Press Release from the other day.

[Crash Test]

Originally posted by JteL
But CAMS are telling us that participation at club-level is up? Are you suggesting, heaven forbid, that participation is actually down?

I can only really comment on what is happening in Queensland, but I'd say things are on the improve. State championship racing has had some massive fields lately, and I think the MGCC will have well over 200 entries at their meeting at QR in November.

Sprints are massive, apart from all of the club run events, the Morgan Park series is fully subscribed for two whole fields of cars.

The Hillclimb series at Mt Cotton has had bumper fields all year, and their smallest meet was actually the state championships!

Rallying is about where it has been for the past few years.

[JteL]

State level participation may be up - club level and grass roots level is down - and this is where the 10,000 increase that CAMS are suggesting is showing an in crease in motor sport participation.

But what they haven't told you is that this number of 10,000 has always been there - previously however it has not been counted.

Talk to clubs that run sprint meeitngs and ask them what the current level of entries is compared to 3, 4 years ago.

You will find it is down significantly across the board.

[Falcadore]

As far as participation goes, in Qld, to me it seems that this year is the best year since I have been involved, and there does not seem to be anything to believe that this trend will not continue.

[Chronicle]

If you want a bit more of a spin on this, have a look at Motorsportforum

[abr944]

ofcourse the numbers are up at state levels....all around australia.....with the demise of procar and others....there are not too many places left for some of these cars to run....my prediction is that racing next year at state level will be up heaps...maybe as much as 50%
comments????
andy

[Aquarius]

I think that grass roots motorsport will grow again.

Out of bad things, good things grow.

[Hound]

What are CAMS trying to achieve?

Following the NSW State Council Elections last weekend for both the Delegate and Alternative Delegate to the Board of CAMS, once again it appears that CAMS are not happy with the result. The two successful candidates have called for a complete re-vamp of the CAMS system to make it more ‘user friendly’, a change in attitude to encourage Clubs to stay within the system, and in general make it possible for people to enjoy their motorsport, etc.

I believe that previously when they didn’t agree with the results of the NSW State Council Election, the CAMS hierarchy forced the issue by holding four elections to get Colin Osborne elected.

Following the election last Saturday, the CAMS good Doctor contacted the NSW Office on Monday requesting an audit of the election procedure and result, which was won fairly and squarely by Cutler and Humphries.

The good Doctor was directed to speak with the State Council Chairman who advised that the elections were conducted as per the Terms of Reference and that the election result will stand.

Why can’t CAMS accept the umpire’s verdict?

When are they going to learn that in this day and age they cannot manipulate those matters of which they do not agree?

If CAMS are so concerned with the way elections of Members to positions of importance are conducted, and as we are continually being advised, is a $9,000,000 not-for-profit organization (and have a larger budget that some Council municipalities), maybe they should amend their Constitution to reflect that all elections are held under the jurisdiction of the Australian Electoral Office. Other ‘unions’ are obliged to follow this procedure. Then CAMS will not have to waste so much time and money trying to change the result of elections or be accountable to their members!!!!

Also, by conducting elections under the jurisdiction of the Australia Electoral Office, when a candidate wins an election fair and square, the credibility of the Chairman of the Council or Panel will not be questioned, the integrity of the Members who are voting for the benefit of the sport as a whole will not be subjected to criticism and candidates will not be compromised to stand aside so that a ‘favourite son’ who asks no questions be the only candidate for election.

Maybe CAMS are right to be concerned at being asked to be accountable for their actions??

[JteL]

NOt just Narnarny errr the Doctor - but the Obese One also is reported to have tried to 'arranged' matters at Saturdays meeteing

[cavvy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hound
[B]What are CAMS trying to achieve?


Why can’t CAMS accept the umpire’s verdict?

When are they going to learn that in this day and age they cannot manipulate those matters of which they do not agree?



Dont know what role John Large plays these days but in his rally days in WA he was reputed to say 'if you dont win in the forest, protest, you can always win in the court room'

Its a while ago I know but .......

[Bimmerhead]

Does anyone else think that CAMS spends too much of our (ie the competitors) money on trying to prop up their heirachy? I know we need a governing body but surely we need one that is in touch with its constituency and moves heaven and earth to ensure that their actions reflect the broad wishes of those constituents. Now I don't know if that's what the CAMS constitution says is its function but if it doesn't, it should!

[JteL]

Originally posted by cavvy
Why can’t CAMS accept the umpire’s verdict?

Because then they would have to admit that democracy works.

When are they going to learn that in this day and age they cannot manipulate those matters of which they do not agree?

They won't whilst present incumbants are entrenched in CAMS National office

Dont know what role John Large plays these days but in his rally days in WA he was reputed to say 'if you dont win in the forest, protest, you can always win in the court room'

He still plays a role but the other Obese One has also started to take ove his role of fear, intimidation, standover tactics and offensive behaviour.

[prn 31]

Originally posted by Bimmerhead
Does anyone else think that CAMS spends too much of our (ie the competitors) money on trying to prop up their heirachy? I know we need a governing body but surely we need one that is in touch with its constituency and moves heaven and earth to ensure that their actions reflect the broad wishes of those constituents. Now I don't know if that's what the CAMS constitution says is its function but if it doesn't, it should!

I am a CAMS member and I pay good $$$ with the expectation that CAMS will use these $$$ wisely and in the best interests of its members.

Us CAMS members paid for the former NSW CAMS delegate & Vice President to go on "research trips" in 2003 to the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis and in 2004 to the Monaco Grand Prix and Cyprus Rally. I don't recall reading in any CAMS magazines (or anywhere infact) how these trips benefited the grass roots competitors that make up the majority of CAMS members.

I believe these trips contributed to the demise of the former CAMS delegate at last weekends State Council elections ... oh, and turning up to CAMS sanctioned events in his yellow Ferrari ....

[Aquarius]

Know you all know why AASA was concieved.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by abr944
ofcourse the numbers are up at state levels....all around australia.....with the demise of procar and others....there are not too many places left for some of these cars to run....my prediction is that racing next year at state level will be up heaps...maybe as much as 50%
comments????
andy

Ummmm, the grand total of ex-PROCAR vehicles that have appeared at Qld state level this year is 1. A BMW M3 that ran once in a Sports Sedan event.

The death of Super touring didn't proved an influx of new vehicles into state level racing until the Touring Car Challenge appeared.

Old production cars are most often rebuilt into road cars and sold off. Even Group C touring cars were sold off that way back in the days.

[alfacors]

Originally posted by prn 31
I am a CAMS member and I pay good $$$ with the expectation that CAMS will use these $$$ wisely and in the best interests of its members.

Us CAMS members paid for the former NSW CAMS delegate & Vice President to go on "research trips" in 2003 to the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis and in 2004 to the Monaco Grand Prix and Cyprus Rally. I don't recall reading in any CAMS magazines (or anywhere infact) how these trips benefited the grass roots competitors that make up the majority of CAMS members.

I believe these trips contributed to the demise of the former CAMS delegate at last weekends State Council elections ... oh, and turning up to CAMS sanctioned events in his yellow Ferrari ....

While I can understand the point of view with regards to these funded trips overseas, I do not see what his choice of personal transport has to do with the matter. Did CAMS fund that purchase as well? hrug:

[Falcadore]

Nope they didn't. But it fosters ill will. Remember the flak John Hewson used tocopover his tatty old Ferrari?

Appearances are everything in politics.

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally posted by Falcadore
Nope they didn't. But it fosters ill will. Remember the flak John Hewson used tocopover his tatty old Ferrari?

Appearances are everything in politics.

That is why John Howard paid nearly twice as much for Bullet proof Holden's rather than BMW that where already to go.