Health of FF1600

Ian Sowman · 23 Mar 2005, 13:40 (Ref:1259781)

FF1600 as a whole would be in better health if NWFF and SoM had 33 entries each, not 52 in one and 14 in the other.

Discuss.

diz · 23 Mar 2005, 13:44 (Ref:1259790)

NWFF with 66 would be far better

I don't mind the NW boundary being lowered to Watford.
End of discussion

MikeM · 23 Mar 2005, 13:53 (Ref:1259801)

Sorry Ian, 52 in NW sounds really good. Better to get more in the others than detract from NW. What if all FF1600 regions could get 50+ entries, wouldn't that be great!

Ian Sowman · 23 Mar 2005, 13:59 (Ref:1259809)

I quite agree Mike, thought it might provoke a debate though! I certainly wouldn't want to detract from any championship - and the NW, like Combe has a strong base of drivers from the region to which it relates, which Star of Midlands does not.

But ignoring that fact, and assuming potential competitors were evenly distributed across the UK, would four strong regional championships be better than two very strong ones (NW and Combe) and two relatively weak ones (MSV and SoM)?

Kicking-back · 23 Mar 2005, 14:07 (Ref:1259815)

Axe SOM then.

If there are not at least 16 cars at every round of a championship, then it's not well enough supported, I believe.

keithsekree · 23 Mar 2005, 14:12 (Ref:1259820)

Only talking personally... I think some people under-estimate the significance that club racers such as myself place on the ease of getting to circuits, inexpensive testing etc. By the time you add overnight stays etc to the week-end it makes it (even) more expensive. I also think that running 30+ single seaters on a circuit like Combe for practise is crazy and dangerous (although thats a different matter).

MikeM · 23 Mar 2005, 14:16 (Ref:1259826)

The trouble with axing championships is that it's then horribly difficult to get them back. Both SS and SOM have had good entry levels in the not too distant past, NW and Combe prove that FF is still popular. I think we need to understand why and encourage the areas that are currently weak. If you look at the South East and Midlands, they must have at least the same basic potential as the NW and SW. BRDC have also shown the interest level that can be achieved at Silverstone.

If you look at the growth of interest in the last couple of seasons, FF is on the up and we need to keep it going that way.

Me and My Swift · 23 Mar 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1259833)

The msv only had 12 enties at brands. Hopefully you guys in the other championships wil come and supports the efforts of Jonathan Palmer as he has giving his time and money to this championshp! Next round Snetterton 10th April!!

Walshy · 23 Mar 2005, 14:41 (Ref:1259839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeM

The trouble with axing championships is that it's then horribly difficult to get them back. Both SS and SOM have had good entry levels in the not too distant past, NW and Combe prove that FF is still popular. I think we need to understand why and encourage the areas that are currently weak. If you look at the South East and Midlands, they must have at least the same basic potential as the NW and SW. BRDC have also shown the interest level that can be achieved at Silverstone.

If you look at the growth of interest in the last couple of seasons, FF is on the up and we need to keep it going that way.

Totally agree Mike. The one thing that doesn't help the popularity of it though, is stopping perfectly healthy cars from racing for carrying illegal (although not performance enhancing) components. Such as the latest spat over Belcranks.

diz · 23 Mar 2005, 14:42 (Ref:1259840)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me and My Swift

The msv only had 12 enties at brands. Hopefully you guys in the other championships wil come and supports the efforts of Jonathan Palmer as he has giving his time and money to this championshp! Next round Snetterton 10th April!!

I'm waiting to see how many of the 12 will front up at Oulton on 21 May. The NW lads will be there and then be heading off to Anglesey on the Sunday for a non championship race with the Leinster MC.

Walshy · 23 Mar 2005, 14:43 (Ref:1259841)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me and My Swift

The msv only had 12 enties at brands. Hopefully you guys in the other championships wil come and supports the efforts of Jonathan Palmer as he has giving his time and money to this championshp! Next round Snetterton 10th April!!

I think JP is moving in the right direction, don't get me wrong, but don't try and make us feel sorry for him.

As I've said before, like any good business man, he wouldn't enter into this if there wasn't something in it for him. If he really wanted to promote it, why isn't there reduced testing fees at his circuits for the MSV competitors or better still, reduced entry for spectators. But as with all these posts, that's another arguement, but they do filter into each other.....

Walshy · 23 Mar 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1259842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by diz

I'm waiting to see how many of the 12 will front up at Oulton on 21 May. The NW lads will be there and then be heading off to Anglesey on the Sunday for a non championship race with the Leinster MC.

Might have to see about that Diz. Cup Final day on the Saturday...

alfaman · 23 Mar 2005, 16:15 (Ref:1259894)

If you look at the 2 most popular championships Combe & NW they concentrate on basically one circuit (admittedly NW does go to Anglesey for an 'away' round(s)..) So does this say something? It seems that drivers/teams prefer that option for whatever reasons.

The championships that go to several circuits - SoM and particularly MSV are the ones particularly badly affected by smaller numbers (at the moment).

Would the Combe grids be so full if rounds also took place at Thruxton & Pembrey? Thruxton I'd guess would be popular because FF1600 hardly goes there. But how many would head to Wales especially those not fighting for the title?

I think the Brands-based championship hasn't recovered from when the BRSCC added Zetec cars in to the series. And the grids at Lydden over the past couple of years were a joke!

I think the MSV idea is potentially a good one but it's a shame that the Champion of Brands is only a sidebar to the main MSV series.

Walshy · 23 Mar 2005, 16:21 (Ref:1259898)

The main reason we travel (I believe) is the loss of race days at Oulton. The BRSCC has had dwindling numbers of days for years now. I remember back in 1996 when I started, every round of a 12 round Championship was at Oulton and mostly on the International Circuit with the odd Fosters. 20 mins Qualifying and a 12 lapper for £103.

Now we only have 5 NWFF days at Oulton with the exception of a couple of non Championship FF races and that's it.

Anglesey is a good addition though. Fantastic weekends.

JohnMiller · 23 Mar 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1259934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me and My Swift

The msv only had 12 enties at brands. Hopefully you guys in the other championships wil come and supports the efforts of Jonathan Palmer as he has giving his time and money to this championshp! Next round Snetterton 10th April!!

I firmly believe that, while the investment is a great sign of faith, had it not been done they would actually have more runners right now. For every potential young pro who comes in two clubmen leave.

Utilising the money more evenly and, dare I say, imaginatively would have been much better - a comment echod by the championship leader's team owner I believe.

Ian Sowman · 23 Mar 2005, 17:27 (Ref:1259957)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Utilising the money more evenly and, dare I say, imaginatively would have been much better - a comment echod by the championship leader's team owner I believe.

Amazing what you read on the internet... Looking at last year's Southern regulars, one has gone Historic FJ racing, one can't afford to race at all, and one has switched allegiance to Combe. That's three - and there wasn't many more than that!

diz · 23 Mar 2005, 17:32 (Ref:1259967)

2004 NW rounds
6 Anglesey
7 Oulton
13 rounds over 9 meetings
2005 NW rounds
4 Anglesey
4 Oulton
2 Croft
10 rounds over 7 meetings

Could have been more at Anglesey, but an early Autumn date offered [at a very reasonable circuit hire] was declined and an August weekend [which proved very successful previously] wasn't taken up this year.
It would have been nice to finish the championship at one of our two home venues

Going even further back than Walshy, the original Champion of Oulton was run over about 16 or 17 Oulton meetings per season. Every club "had to run a round".
We do have two other Oulton's this year. An MSV round in May and a King of Kents round [Moose Trophy] in September.

JohnMiller · 23 Mar 2005, 17:34 (Ref:1259972)

Don't forget when you started out they had 56 rounds, all with 300 entries and the entry fee was two and six which included a free pie at the end of the day.

Steve Burns · 23 Mar 2005, 18:24 (Ref:1260034)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Amazing what you read on the internet... Looking at last year's Southern regulars, one has gone Historic FJ racing, one can't afford to race at all, and one has switched allegiance to Combe. That's three - and there wasn't many more than that!

Don't forget the champion, who has swapped his FF1600 for a Ferrari 360 in British GT!

Ian Sowman · 23 Mar 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1260047)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burns

Don't forget the champion, who has swapped his FF1600 for a Ferrari 360 in British GT!

Well reminded!

Triple J Motorsport · 24 Mar 2005, 01:06 (Ref:1260323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walshy

I think JP is moving in the right direction, don't get me wrong, but don't try and make us feel sorry for him.

As I've said before, like any good business man, he wouldn't enter into this if there wasn't something in it for him. If he really wanted to promote it, why isn't there reduced testing fees at his circuits for the MSV competitors or better still, reduced entry for spectators. But as with all these posts, that's another arguement, but they do filter into each other.....

JP chose exactly where he spent his money ie first 3 only plus 2 tyres best looking car. Why? Because he wants a professional championship with teams etc

I think he is wrong and should lower entry fees etc and get 30 car grid not 12 cars run by proffessional teams

Have you read the article in todays Motorsport news? Speculates that he will form his own club to rival BRSCC BARC etc as he doesn't like not being able to control what races on his circuits. He will then have his choosen races on his circuits be similar to Comb I guess (ie FF1600 Saloons GTs plus guests) and one assumes try and get the public in like Comb. Read the article!

diz · 24 Mar 2005, 07:02 (Ref:1260465)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayFF

Have you read the article in todays Motorsport news? Speculates that he will form his own club to rival BRSCC BARC etc as he doesn't like not being able to control what races on his circuits. He will then have his choosen races on his circuits be similar to Comb I guess (ie FF1600 Saloons GTs plus guests) and one assumes try and get the public in like Comb. Read the article!

No I haven't, but I have already mentioned this somewhere previously on some thread or other.

foreversideways · 24 Mar 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1260564)

Since becoming involved again last season i have been really suprised how popular FF1600 has become, especially NW. As i understand it at the moment if you want a team to run a car for you, you will be out of luck as the teams are already full. Lets enjoy this situation and see how it can be improve at other venues. I for one would be happy to travel a moderate distance if the championship was extended to take in Mallory /Donnington and of course we are going to Croft later in the year. This however may not be as well supported as it might be as it clashes with the A1GP round at Brands and i guess people not involved in the Championship fight might opt for a run on the Brands GP Circuit. Just a point on overnight costs, i have found that Premier Lodge accomodation is excellent, usually attatched to a pub and a bargain at £47.00 for a double room. As to JP i applaud his tireless efforts at his circuits however i am suspicious of his motives in organising championships. I for one would support BRSCC/BARC if this move continues.Smacks a little of a monopoly.

Redracer77 · 24 Mar 2005, 10:35 (Ref:1260570)

Sugar Ray stop posting on 10/10ths and get that text written!!!

diz · 24 Mar 2005, 10:52 (Ref:1260580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Sugar Ray stop posting on 10/10ths and get that text written!!!

Redracer. Stop posting on 10/10ths telling the likes of Sugar Ray and The Snowman to stop posting on 10/10ths and get 'whatever it is they are supposed to be doing' done.

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