Important changes to EERC meetings for Marshals.

[johndpeat]

The EERC have decided that for any incidents requiring the Safty car will now be handled in a new way.Upon the call for the safty car the safty car will be deployed stright away regardless of where it enters the race.NO cars will be waved past the car during the incident.This means that you will not have to contend with cars tring to catch the back of the train.This applies even if the car has not got the leader behind it.The rule will take effect from the next meeting at Silverstone as far as I am awear.

[Alan Green]

From a marshals / safety point of view this is good, and thank you very much EERC.

But from a drivers point of view I would not be happy about this. Imagine the safety car coming out into the gap between the first and second place cars, turning maybe a ten second gap between the two into almost being a lap behind for the second place guy. This makes it more of a lottery than straight fight racing.

We're all for safety, but we like to see good competitive racing as well.

Al.

[johndpeat]

A valid point Alan but with the pitstops that have to be made we often do not end up with the leader behind the the safty car anyway as the stop pan out.And to get the leader back would often mean waving past more cars the club feels in the intrest of your safty it is the best option.

[Sheila M]

Sounds good to me John!

The other advantage I can see is that the person on the pit exit lights may have a better chance of getting any cars out of the pit lane and onto the back of the queue (not as I did once and into the middle of it!).

[jase]

So when the obstruction is clear anyone between the leader and the safety car gets penalised a lap.

Not really fair on them is it?

[johndpeat]

The rule is being put in to the supplementry regs as of 29/9/04.So it has been accepted but the club.
Anything to help you a little bit Sheila;-)

[JimW]

Well done Britcar. This will not only make the intervention safer more quickly but actually model what most organisers/safety car drivers manage anyway.

Regards

Jim

[jase]

British GT's has run like this for ages, there is nothing new or ground breaking with this "announcement"

[johndpeat]

As I have said We often seemed to end up with the leader behind other cars in the train.Often due to stops being made I know but it happens quiet often.At the end of the day I must stress this rule is being implimented for the safty of the marshals.This is the clubs only aim to make the SAFTY CAR period SAFE.
IF the cars can be waved past the Safty Car after the incident is totally clear then they may be allowed to pass but while there are people trackside all cars will hold station.

[jase]

from www.eerc.co.uk

EERC Pace Car Format...

When an incident happens out on the circuit in a Race, the first people to considered are the Marshals and the support staff at the incident...NO ONE ELSE MATTERS.

Therefore it is proposed that the Safety Car is sent out straight away in

response to an incident by the 'Clerk of the Course' into the race to slow down the Pack, therefore speeding up the process of protecting the Marshals at the incident instead of having to wait for the leader, which can waste valuable time. Where it comes out into the Pack is a lottery.
It will be not only be at Night when the car numbers cannot be read by the Observer in the Safety Car, but also in standard daytime racing, to NOT allow anyone to pass the Safety Car at anytime. So therefore no one will be waved past either....
(If you pass the Safety Car you will be Disqualified)...

John, please clarify, as you seem to be contradicting yourself

[johndpeat]

Sorry about that Jason my mistake.What you have quoted is correct.

[jase]

Just so we're clear

The most important persons are those attending the incident, and they must be able to work safely.

[johndpeat]

They are the most important people of all.As I know you agree.After all we all do it for the love of the sport and that is it.

[Peter Harding]

Will you still get cars coming out of the pits at ALL times except when safety car is in pit straight. This is also a problem as stragglers are always playing "catch-up".

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Peter Harding
Will you still get cars coming out of the pits at ALL times except when safety car is in pit straight. This is also a problem as stragglers are always playing "catch-up".

Pete, safety car rules for any series, as I understand them, are that the pit exit is open until the safety car and the following train are in sight (or approaching the pit entrance). The pit exit is then closed until all the cars in the train have passed the exit, when it will then be re-opened.

Does this help?

[Sheila M]

Actually what I should have said is, does this answer your question?

[Sheila M]

Alternatively, any doubts about what happens during a safety car period can be easily cleared up by speaking to Whizzo. I've explained the finer points to him more times than I care to remember

[Piglet]

Originally posted by Sheila M
Pete, safety car rules for any series, as I understand them, are that the pit exit is open until the safety car and the following train are in sight (or approaching the pit entrance). The pit exit is then closed until all the cars in the train have passed the exit, when it will then be re-opened.

Does this help?

So the answer to Peter's question is yes - the pit lane exit is open at all times except when sc and train are passing so at all other times you will get cars playing catch up. The alternative is to close the pit lane completely whilst the sc is out or to run the FIA version (I think it's still the same) where the pit lane is only open for (i think) 30 seconds after the sc and train has passed the exit.

I think the EERC idea is an ok idea, but I did think that the MSA were trying hard to standadise SC procedures this year and I wonder whether this is helpful in that regard as presumably there will be other races on the same day where this procedure is not followed?

It does seem unfair to competitors stuck in the train - perhaps this is less of an issue for EERC where there are no championship points at stake?

[Alan Green]

I hadn't realised that the British GT ran to this type of rule (only seen them once this year). I suppose with the number of pitstops it could even itself out, but that's relying on more than one safety car interevention.

Wait & see what happens, and if it works all well and good.

Al.

[Steve Wood 2]

Sheila is correct (of course !), and the longer version of the "amended" Britcar safety car rules say just that. Gary James, our regular SC driver, will slow the pack down to an extent that any car exiting the pit lane whilst the crocodile is on the circuit will easily be able to tag onto the rear without excessively speeding - we're talking 30-40mph here.

There have been so many cock-ups in the last couple of years, where people have won or lost a race, and let's face it, they have all been down to judgmental errors by the SC driver or the CoC, or mis-communication or misunderstanding between the two. At least this way, there is a set procedure, eliminating the possibility of human error. Everybody knows that if the safety car comes out, your race could be buggered. Accept it, and move on - everybody's in the same boat. Drivers and marshals safety is far more important than a race win.

[johndpeat]

From a Marshals pov things have not changed for safty car deployment.Normal procedure still applies.All that has changed is simply the fact once the safty car is out no cars will be allowed to pass it period.The location of race leaders in a pack is not really the major concern of the marshals dealing with incidents.Not having cars coming at them at near race pace after being waved by is a bigger issue.

[QuickBrownFox]

I know this rule could be harsh on the outcome of the race, but if a driver or support worker were to be injured during a safety car period by a car catching up / having been waved by, everyone's race would be buggered!

[craig hope]

Yes think this is a very good idea.....as a marshal you would be able to work quicker.... if the train was more together this would give you longer to clean up or what you might need to attend to......

I also agree that the pit lane should only be allowed to stay open 30 seconds after the train has passed

[jase]

QBF, the point being made is that like all enduro races that have an SC intervention, once on track the SC will pick up a car - not nesecarily the leader.

Like other series no cars are allowed to pass the SC, however unlike other series, once the incident is clear the SC pullis in and racing continues - BGT/LMES etc allow cars between the SC and leader to catch the back of the train so no laps are lost. EERC won't allow that to happen so if you are between the SC and leader you lose a lap.

[Woolley]

No problem. Everyone knows the rule at the start of the season, and I guess everyone will gain some and lose some. The only thing that must be avoided is any suggestion that the SC is deployed at a time that would be deliberately (dis-) advantageous to anyone. I know it won't be, but it must be seen to be above suspicion.