Norma M20CM and 2000 (Merge thread)

IanGrohse · 17 Oct 2003, 02:15 (Ref:753954)

Its a great looking car, looks really fast.
I have a question about the cooling if anyone knows.

There are the intakes for cooling, and where are the coolers located. The side ducting looks a little thin to be radiator cooling, but possibly that is it.
If anyone knows, that would be great.
And if anyone has any more detail shots besides those from their website, ide love to see them.

Fab · 17 Oct 2003, 05:06 (Ref:754005)

There's at least this one, not very precise...

Here's another one... and during the race, those last ones by BernardB...

cybersdorf · 17 Oct 2003, 13:47 (Ref:754365)

I hate to say it Fab, but this isn't the car Ian is talking about. The M20 is the smaller, motorcycle-engined prototype that is used in French hillclimbs.

I reckon the LMP2 will look awfully similar to this.

**Aysedasi** · 17 Oct 2003, 14:57 (Ref:754418)

Quote:

Originally posted by IanGrohse
Its a great looking car, looks really fast.
I have a question about the cooling if anyone knows.

I was going to say! Nobody could regard the creation which "raced" at Le Mans this year as "looks really fast".....

IanGrohse · 17 Oct 2003, 16:13 (Ref:754513)

Quote:

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I was going to say! Nobody could regard the creation which "raced" at Le Mans this year as "looks really fast".....

Hahahaha, no, I have seen the car in person a few times at other races, Petite, and LeMans.........I was amazed at how slow the LMP900 Norma was at Petite.......It was struggling to keep up with the GTS and GT cars on the straight!

But the M20 CM and CN look like whole differnt stories!

pirenzo · 17 Oct 2003, 16:26 (Ref:754524)

I want to know what Ayse was doing taking photos of the Norma

cybersdorf · 17 Oct 2003, 16:27 (Ref:754525)

Quote:

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I was going to say! Nobody could regard the creation which "raced" at Le Mans this year as "looks really fast".....

(yeah, and hasn't got a roof either

)

Although it is probably fair to say the M2000 failed miserably at Le Mans, I really like its looks, in the same way one might like a 333SP. - The M20 seems to be a really competitive package in its class, certainly looks aerodynamically somewhat more advanced that its opposition (Radicals, CN cars, Sports2000s, suchlike); but I haven't seen one in real life yet.

**FIRE** · 17 Oct 2003, 17:23 (Ref:754584)

The yellow M20 is an elegant car, but I think if this car is converted to an LMP it will, like the blue/white Norma, also be slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

In spite of beying the "Minardi" of sportscar racing (or is it Debora?

) I like Norma.

Fab · 18 Oct 2003, 07:09 (Ref:754934)

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersdorf
I hate to say it Fab, but this isn't the car Ian is talking about.

Don't hate to say this, I'm familiar with those Shtupid Mishtakes !

Was a way to say that I loved the blue and white one in June ! How, silly me !

Fab · 18 Oct 2003, 07:10 (Ref:754935)

Quote:

Originally posted by pirenzo
I want to know what Ayse was doing taking photos of the Norma

I did !

Not fast, but I loved it !

BTW, I prefer the blue and white livery, this yellow one is a bit tasteless... nothing rally technical, as you see !

cybersdorf · 18 Oct 2003, 13:13 (Ref:755057)

Quote:

Originally posted by FIRE
The yellow M20 is an elegant car, but I think if this car is converted to an LMP it will, like the blue/white Norma, also be slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

From what Mr. Santos has posted on our own little board, I believe that the M20 won'r be converted into an LMP2 but that they'll stay along the lines of this design when (if?) they build the LMP2. Considering what it will be up against - Pilbeam MP84 and 91, LolaB2K/40, I don't think there will be any newer cars coming along - it doesn't look so out of place at all.

bernard b · 23 Oct 2003, 17:57 (Ref:761033)

here's a pic of this Norma (well, bodywork at least) on the top of the Team Norma's truck at this year's Le Mans

don't know if it helps ...

**FIRE** · 23 Oct 2003, 18:01 (Ref:761037)

Quote:

Originally posted by bernard b
here's a pic of this Norma (well, bodywork at least) on the top of the Team Norma's truck at this year's Le Mans

don't know if it helps ...

Is this a cheap method to do wind tunnel testing?

Tim Northcutt · 23 Oct 2003, 18:11 (Ref:761049)

Maybe they had the Team Sezio guys stand in front of it smoking a cigar as the truck rolled down the highway so they could see how the air flowed around the chassis....

**FIRE** · 23 Oct 2003, 18:24 (Ref:761068)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
Maybe they had the Team Sezio guys stand in front of it smoking a cigar as the truck rolled down the highway so they could see how the air flowed around the chassis....

Or the smoke came from exhaustpipes of the trucks.

Dauntless · 23 Oct 2003, 21:05 (Ref:761264)

The Norma M20 was homologated in the USA as a C- or D-Sports Racer with Sports Car Club of America (an FIA affiliate). The cars haven't proved competitive against other motorcycle engined sports racers, much less automotive engined sports racers.

Tim Northcutt · 23 Oct 2003, 21:32 (Ref:761297)

The Norma LMP900 that Team Sezio ran at Petit last year and at Le Mans this year wasn't competitive with "automotive engined racers" either.....not even in the ballpark....

I think I would shop elsewhere if I were looking for a new chassis to take to the track....

**Aysedasi** · 24 Oct 2003, 08:49 (Ref:761658)

Quote:

Originally posted by pirenzo
I want to know what Ayse was doing taking photos of the Norma

I'm not prepared to answer this for fear of incriminating myself.....

Besides, when there are no Deboras, you have to take pictures of something slow.....

veeten · 24 Oct 2003, 11:04 (Ref:761765)

good move, Ayse. Plead the 5th Amendment...

folks do it all the time here...

sportproto · 6 Nov 2003, 15:25 (Ref:774909)

If anyone here (except one or two) would really want to have a fair analyse of Norma's past, he should discover that :
1 - Norma is a very small factory : 4 to 10 person.
2 - Since 1991, all Norma cars succeed where they were racing : in French & Europe hillclimbing, in French Alfa-Romeo Cups ...
3 - But Because of a lack of money, Norma never get a competitive & reliable engine fitted for the great races : Le Mans 1995 First qualifying practice : 9th best time - Second qualifying practice : 2 engines crashed ! No comment
4 - The LMP900 M2000 isn't competitive because of a) a lack of development (carbon discs were fitted for Le Mans 2003 although the car begans to run in 2000 !!!!) b) a bad engine first choice : the Mader (a real Norma mistake, for sure) then a good change for Ford V8 but unfortunately with bad builders, Kinetic then Hertel. That's the real true. Perhaps they'll have a chance to make it run in 2004 LMES : if they go for it, be sure that they'll have a good engine and developments funds.
5 - The new Norma M20 CN is a very competitive car : it's just starting this year and ever beat the Osella in hillclimbing; last week at Magny-Cours 4000 kms (VdeV), it had the 2nd place on the grid with all Radicals behind ! Norma guys are talented. See you in 2004 !

sportproto · 6 Nov 2003, 15:43 (Ref:774937)

Agree with cybersdorf ! The M2000 is really beautiful.

Tim Northcutt · 6 Nov 2003, 16:27 (Ref:774968)

Guess they just "looked slow" last June....silly me... must've been the Whitbread Ale....

Fab · 6 Nov 2003, 16:45 (Ref:774998)

Quote:

Originally posted by sportproto
Agree with cybersdorf ! The M2000 is really beautiful.

Glad to welcome a new member, living in my town !

I think the place of this one is more in the "Norma" thread...

**FIRE** · 6 Nov 2003, 19:17 (Ref:775147)

Sportproto welcome!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by sportproto
If anyone here (except one or two) would really want to have a fair analyse of Norma's past, he should discover that :
1 - Norma is a very small factory : 4 to 10 person.
2 - Since 1991, all Norma cars succeed where they were racing : in French & Europe hillclimbing, in French Alfa-Romeo Cups ...
3 - But Because of a lack of money, Norma never get a competitive & reliable engine fitted for the great races : Le Mans 1995 First qualifying practice : 9th best time - Second qualifying practice : 2 engines crashed ! No comment
4 - The LMP900 M2000 isn't competitive because of a) a lack of development (carbon discs were fitted for Le Mans 2003 although the car begans to run in 2000 !!!!) b) a bad engine first choice : the Mader (a real Norma mistake, for sure) then a good change for Ford V8 but unfortunately with bad builders, Kinetic then Hertel. That's the real true. Perhaps they'll have a chance to make it run in 2004 LMES : if they go for it, be sure that they'll have a good engine and developments funds.
5 - The new Norma M20 CN is a very competitive car : it's just starting this year and ever beat the Osella in hillclimbing; last week at Magny-Cours 4000 kms (VdeV), it had the 2nd place on the grid with all Radicals behind ! Norma guys are talented. See you in 2004 !

I understand the reasons why the car isn't as fast as a Dome or Courage. And yes we make jokes about the Norma (and Debora

) but I have a weakness (am I the only one?) for these small teams/constructors who build and race a car with only a small budget.

BTW are you related to Norma?

Fab · 7 Nov 2003, 06:52 (Ref:775616)

Quote:

Originally posted by sportproto
If anyone here (except one or two) would really want to have a fair analyse of Norma's past, he should discover that :
1 - Norma is a very small factory : 4 to 10 person.
2 - Since 1991, all Norma cars succeed where they were racing : in French & Europe hillclimbing, in French Alfa-Romeo Cups ...
3 - But Because of a lack of money, Norma never get a competitive & reliable engine fitted for the great races : Le Mans 1995 First qualifying practice : 9th best time - Second qualifying practice : 2 engines crashed ! No comment
4 - The LMP900 M2000 isn't competitive because of a) a lack of development (carbon discs were fitted for Le Mans 2003 although the car begans to run in 2000 !!!!) b) a bad engine first choice : the Mader (a real Norma mistake, for sure) then a good change for Ford V8 but unfortunately with bad builders, Kinetic then Hertel. That's the real true. Perhaps they'll have a chance to make it run in 2004 LMES : if they go for it, be sure that they'll have a good engine and developments funds.
5 - The new Norma M20 CN is a very competitive car : it's just starting this year and ever beat the Osella in hillclimbing; last week at Magny-Cours 4000 kms (VdeV), it had the 2nd place on the grid with all Radicals behind ! Norma guys are talented. See you in 2004 !

I'm glad to find a new support for Norma on the forum, and as Fire is too, we will be three !

Small teams are the charm of Le Mans : remember the pleasure we have to welcome Morgan and Spyker, even if they've no chance to win.

And I have to admit here my weakness for the Norma, which is a very nice car IMHO, more since I saw it in close-ups in the pit lane last May (PQ)...

And I hope that they'll be able to improve the car to find a more honorable place on the grid... nevertheless, they deserve respect and success, due to their commitement : who knows ? One day, we may be glad to have them on the track, matching with the best cars !

Roll on Norma, WR and... Debora !

- sorry for the "french touch" of this post

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