|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
10 Nov 2007, 07:44 (Ref:2064171) | #1 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 63
|
Why are rallycross cars so unreliable?
Please dont take this as an offensive question.
Rallycross cars are not that different to rally cars. Obviously there are a few fundamental changes! But rally cars do back to back 20 mile stages and dont break down anything like as often. Last weekend at Croft it was no different to any other year of the spectacular event. 20 supercars entered and by the end of the weekend 10 were left running. Not to mention all of the other mechanical failures the drivers had but managed to repair. I know these machines are fine tuned and dont have factory support and run on a low budget compared to other sports. But is this the reason? Thank you Madcowie |
|
|
10 Nov 2007, 09:11 (Ref:2064190) | #2 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 370
|
Mainly because a rallycross Div 1 car has at least 200 Bhp more than any rally car !
1 This is a massive rise in stress levels on the engine over anything in rallying 2 Huge amount of extra power tests all of the important componants, Gearbox Diffs and Driveshafts to the max mainly during the start . The best person on here to tell you more would be The 2007 Rallycross Div1 Open and MSA Supercar preparation champion Mr B ! |
||
|
10 Nov 2007, 10:46 (Ref:2064220) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 8,298
|
Chris is clearly on the button here, and also I think a huge problem is the suppliers that rallycrioss people use.
In my ind there are plenty of ares of motrosport with cars more powerful than rallycross, drag racing for example. there are 1000hp four wheel drive drag cars that only ever accelerate on asphalt, surely the people that supply shafts and stuff that is likely to blow could help. Anotehr problem I think is contact, these cars are no doubt damned hard to drive on the limit, hence there is often much contact and the parts used are a little hughly strung shall we say, so they break easily. As Chris says WRC cars have 350hp at the most so most of the parts used are not goona be able to withstand 500+hp and 700 ft-Lbs of torque. I think Quaife use rallycross to develop new bits aswell as supplying. |
||
|
10 Nov 2007, 12:47 (Ref:2064276) | #4 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 175
|
If you take a look at Hansens car it's basicly a test mule for next years car. That C4 he's been driving this year has parts which will be seen on the 2008 WRC car. They basicly give him stuff to break because Rallycross is a much more stressful sport on the car to be sure they can sustain the WRC stages.
|
||
|
10 Nov 2007, 14:31 (Ref:2064359) | #5 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 259
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
11 Nov 2007, 01:23 (Ref:2064733) | #6 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 456
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
11 Nov 2007, 01:54 (Ref:2064747) | #7 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 456
|
Quote:
In Rallycross you have to compromise a bit. A Rallycross track is often 60% tarmac and 40% gravel. The start is very important in RC. So to optimise a good start setup you lower and stiff up the suspension. And that is often good for the asphalt parts as well. And sense the start and the 60% tarmac parts are so important rallycrossers tends to drive a rather stiff setup, but on the bumpier gravel sections and when they hit the curbs there are not always enough movement for the drive shafts and that is often the cause of Diff and Driveshaft problems. And as Chris Cake and Chunder pointed out, 200 extra hp and contact do not make things better do they |
|||
|
11 Nov 2007, 09:08 (Ref:2064813) | #8 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,296
|
All of the above are very true - but I also think the reliability of rally cars is being overstated, especially at club level. The drop out rate due to mechanical failures is usually fairly high, I'll dig out some numbers from some of the events I've done (not all drop outs are mechanical obviously but a large percentage are). On the Tempest rally yesterday we passed at least 4 cars stopped in the 1st stage
Retirements on the Tempest: http://www.tynecomp.co.uk/Results/ot.../2/retire.html http://www.tynecomp.co.uk/Results/ot.../1/retire.html Last edited by BertMk2; 11 Nov 2007 at 09:12. |
||
|
11 Nov 2007, 10:29 (Ref:2064837) | #9 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 366
|
Quote:
Generally, the more exciting a car is to watch the less reliable it is likely to be. |
||
|
11 Nov 2007, 12:43 (Ref:2064906) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,286
|
Quote:
I hear Australia is where you have to go to get the best impreza boxes... I think its evident, because if you look at some of the top ERxC guys their cars do seem to take the punishment; The likes of Eklund, Hansen, Joranli and schance put out the best gear into their cars, that they have probably hand made themselfs from the best components. |
||
__________________
Cryos, thats me! To keep the national IQ higher, we prevent links in the signatures. Its clearly in the notice, but that doesn't stop some people moaning about it.. |
11 Nov 2007, 15:58 (Ref:2065019) | #11 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,159
|
The answer to that "apples vs pears comparison" is actually quite simple:
If one would drive a Rally with 95+% effort he would hardly see the finish at all. If one would drive a RX with 100-% effort he would hardly be among the top finishers. |
||
__________________
"Sometimes he wonders as the years go past, how’d he ever go so fast and get nowhere…" (David Munyon, from 'Super Blue' on his 'Acrylic Teepees' CD) |
12 Nov 2007, 09:14 (Ref:2065442) | #12 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,296
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
12 Nov 2007, 10:39 (Ref:2065491) | #13 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 366
|
Quote:
This is another area where comparing rallycross and rallying is, as rx-guru says, an 'apples and pears comparison' - gravel rallies are generally much harder on suspension etc., tarmac rallies are often harder on transmissions and rallycross is hard on both, but each to a lesser extent. |
||
|
12 Nov 2007, 11:18 (Ref:2065506) | #14 | |||||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,296
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
|
13 Nov 2007, 08:36 (Ref:2066292) | #15 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 207
|
I don't think WRC's are so reliable anymore if they would enter the ERC scene. As all top Rallycross drivers point out the drivetrain would be the fist to give in if it is given the power and agressivenes a ERC engine will offer. One of the reasons why the Hyundai now has a Schanche gearbox and not the WRC transverse Xtrac anymore.
And I am also not so keen if the WRC engines are builld to withstand the extremely high boost used in the ERC especially in the pre 45mm era. I do believe the 45mm restriction will make it more possible for WRC's to enter in that regard. It is yet to be proven that a modified WRC can win a ERC championship... |
||
|
13 Nov 2007, 12:30 (Ref:2066498) | #16 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 175
|
A prime example of WRC standard cars in Rallycross is GT's 307. He hasn't had the best of things come out of that car.
|
||
|
13 Nov 2007, 12:52 (Ref:2066519) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,286
|
Its also partly a function of rallycross rules and championship scoring.
You don't have to worry about getting to the end of a 16 mile stage if something breaks after a couple of miles. You get towed back to a nice comfortable garage and and hopefully fix it in time for the next heat. The scoring system means you can drop a scored round (sometimes more than one) - allowing you a free breakdown. Bonus points for ftd also means that speed is favoured over consistency. My own impression is that the euro restrictors have reduced the number of failures. But maybe engineering has become a bit more conservative too in the midfield ranks? Blowing things up can be expensive! Last edited by leonidas; 13 Nov 2007 at 12:54. |
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Old rallycross cars | fullcircle | Rallying & Rallycross | 28 | 15 Apr 2008 07:50 |
New rallycross cars | M.Lowe | Rallying & Rallycross | 20 | 16 Aug 2005 20:19 |
rallycross cars | Cryos | Rallying & Rallycross | 2 | 19 Jul 2004 22:51 |
Where are these rallycross cars now? | JAG | Rallying & Rallycross | 4 | 24 Feb 2003 17:43 |
Which cars will be most unreliable? | Super Tourer | Formula One | 27 | 20 Feb 2003 20:38 |