In the long term, what measures would help F1 recover and bring in more interest?

[duke_toaster]

Nice off-season vague blue-sky question for producing opinions here. One way to alleviate the off-season boredom.

F1 is in a time where F1 needs to survive and then find a way to help it recover, and then grow. The current economic climate has generated a situation where two teams have appeared to have gone in less than twelve months, and the media is now speculating on who will be the next team to go.

In your opinion, what would help F1 become a healthier sport? In essence, how can privateer and manufacturer interests be balanced, and how can the cost/benefit ratio for everyone become viable again? Which cost cutting measures would cut costs and improve road relevancy at the same time without harming the sport?

Thread full of questions there, I'm writing some answers and will post them later. I don't like threads that start off with a question and then provide an answer in post 1, the first post isn't supposed to be a manifesto .

[LinkF1]

For starters, F1 would have to stop ignoring the biggest GDP in the world.

[Born Racer]

I'll write a longer post at some point when I'm not about to get back to work, but I'll back up LinkF1's point that F1 needs an American race. I would also advocate an African race, and more in South America (consider Argentina where there is much motorsport passion). Europe should not be abandoned in favour of too many Asian races. All obvious stuff I'm saying, but worth repeating.

[steve nielsen]

more value for money for the crowds: more(interesting) suport races.

why not do it like MotoGP does and also include F3 in the mix

a raceday with F3,GP2 and F1 would be good .

[LinkF1]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

more value for money for the crowds: more(interesting) suport races.

why not do it like MotoGP does and also include F3 in the mix

a raceday with F3,GP2 and F1 would be good .

I agree that more interesting support races would go a long way to provided extra value, especially open wheel variants such as the ones you have suggested.

[zac510]

duke seems to be talking about more value for the teams whereas you're talking more value for the people at the race? they're not the same thing!

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by zac510

duke seems to be talking about more value for the teams whereas you're talking more value for the people at the race? they're not the same thing!

I am. The trackside fans are a part of the F1 mosaic, but that's more a matter of the circuit owners not the FIA or FOM.

This isn't exhaustive, but here are some of my ideas. Small text to stop it looking flooded.

Problem : Lack of reach to major markets when less important ones have races.
Solution : Add two races in the US plus Canada at the expense of two flyaways and Hungary. Replace China with another race in Japan or Korea.

Problem : More and more parts are being constructed from materials that are unsuitable for road cars and are extremely expensive.
Solution : Reduction in carbon fibre components. This could be enforced by a ban on carbon fibre components in certain areas (perhaps suspension and the powertrain). Minimum weights for complete "corner" as well as other parts, too. Possible driver + seat to stop drivers being like jockeys, possible minimum cockpit size.

Potentially, carbon fibre could be banned from certain parts of the bodywork, with GRP used instead. I'm thinking the parts that get broken more easily would become cheaper.

Problem : Privateers are incapable of getting a cheap supply of engines.
Solution : Similar to Max's Cosworth Option, privateers will have the option of an engine that has similar power to the manufacturer's units but not totally complying with the same rules. This would not preclude other arrangements.

Problem : Manufacturers want a set of rules that allows them to use their own technologies.
Solution : Simples. Loosely production based engines (allowing novel technologies present on the basis engine) with a fuel flow limit. FIA may dyno test any engine at any time, for comparison to the Privateer Cheap Engine and adjust the fuel flow limit for all of these engines, or the turbocharger pressures to keep the privateer engine viable. All FIA gathered dyno data to be published on Formula1.com.

Problem : Lack of customer cars is harmful as it keeps the sport as more or less of a closed shop, harming options for younger drivers. Few sports have so few participants at the top level.
Solution : Must supply price for chassis and spares, however if parts from a road car manufacturer are used everything must be from them.

Other measures in brief : open source ECU software to enforce TC ban but allow a little more leeway. More data on cars to be published between races for fan interest, possibly adding more things to the TV feed like heart rate monitors on the drivers (to show more about the physical effort in F1). A simple set of rules that has similarities between Formula 1 and a new Formula 2 championship to reduce R and D costs. IndyCars to move to Formula 2 rules for road courses, with their own wings for ovals.

[tausif]

Here's my crazy 2-cents worth:

Make the top teams run a 3rd car that will mainly be for paid drivers. Grids will be bigger, more drivers will get a chance thereby bringing more spectators / sponsors. The 3rd seat can have contests for drivers to win - more fun.

[ensign14]

Scrap the formula and start again. Give the teams £10m each to spend and a free formula, other than the cars must be driven and the drivers must be safe. See what they come up with.

[zac510]

Where on Earth do you get the idea that carbon fibre is unsuitable for a road car? It's entirely suitable: lightweight, stiff, mould and bondable. Already carbon fibre and carbon-composite parts are making their ways onto production cars. It's in no way irrelevant to road cars. To replace them with GRP would be to use a material that's even less suitable to road cars!

Fuel flow has issues becuase it's hard to control the pressure of the fuel. Air restrictors have been better used.

I don't think many of your solutions are well thought out.

And here comes everybody else with their magic bullet solutions to fix F1. If changing the whole thing was that simple then they surely would have done it already.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by zac510

Where on Earth do you get the idea that carbon fibre is unsuitable for a road car? It's entirely suitable: lightweight, stiff, mould and bondable. Already carbon fibre and carbon-composite parts are making their ways onto production cars. It's in no way irrelevant to road cars. To replace them with GRP would be to use a material that's even less suitable to road cars!

The material itself has the properties that would make it viable. However, they are not finding themselves on normal road cars and that appears unlikely to happen for the forseeable future for one reason - cost. However, plastic-type materials are becoming more and more popular on normal road cars.

Also there is the intrinsic cost cutting aspects as well as the road relevancy ones.

Fuel flow has issues becuase it's hard to control the pressure of the fuel. Air restrictors have been better used.

I feel sure that there are other ways, possibly by having a Group C-style limit as well.

I don't think many of your solutions are well thought out.

I've been considering some for a while, some for less than that.

And here comes everybody else with their magic bullet solutions to fix F1. If changing the whole thing was that simple then they surely would have done it already.

One thing is clear. There is no magic bullet.

[zac510]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

One thing is clear. There is no magic bullet.

agree!

I don't really think there's anything wrong, but most people seem to have worked themselves up into a state of believing that something is wrong, like a bunch of hypochondriacs.

[ChrisPage]

I think any measures that get new and existing fans excited are key. I'll sit and watch any motor racing - but to bring new people in the sport needs to open up to the fans. Cheaper tickets, more interaction, less aloof.

Touring cars always worked well on F1 events.

Possibly on a Friday consider having a national (or World) touring car race, plus thow in some local drivers demonstating either F1 cars (Il Lione in the current Ferrari?!), and some good entertainment. Provide low cost tickets - big crowd, accessable for new people, and builds a buzz.

I know a few extra thousand at a Grand prix Friday won't see the whole world convert, but i think things like this would benefit new and old fans - you could even run a test day in that format?

[chillibowl]

we often say that F1 is too much of a business and not enough of a sport, but really it has not run like a business for a long time.

F1 programs should be run according to a business model based on that of a successful privateer team. the teams should be run as separate entities (regardless of the brand they carry) and any losses they incur should be at the detriment to the F1 team itself and not a liability for their parent company to absorb.

a low cost approach helps with this, but basically each team should be run like a proper business without the security of a multi-billion dollar company to bail them out when they mess up.
Hopefully, having to operate in the same way the rest of us do will make F1 more accessible and bring in more interest.

[RichardRenes]

Stop asking 130 million dollar for a single race. You can not convince me that it costs that much to go anywhere so...

Stop modifying all the great circuits in the world. Won't be long before every circuit is nothing more than a series of chicanes.

Let motorsports be dangerous again.. perhaps not so for viewers, but definately for drivers. Too many great corners have been lost for safety.

Lastly: The F1 should be independent from the FIA.

[Devilsadvocate]

Amongst many other things, I would like to see the sport bring itself back to the people. By that I mean have the teams and drivers more accessible to the public. I recently had a discussion about club versus F1 meetings and the majority of those involved all said they would not bother going to an F1 GP but love going to club meetings. One of the big plus aspects being the openness, access to pits, drivers, mechanics etc just for a chat. Also there appears to be better camaradory between the club drivers/teams than there is between F1 drivers/teams. I personally think F1 has gone too far up its own rectum and needs to get back to the real world - if it wants to gain interest and popularity.

(Hope that doesn't come across too harsh, but I am sure you get my point).

[Satorian]

The teams have to get the economic control back. It can't be that FOM/Ecclestone/CVC are bleeding every team and track dry to fill their own coffers. The racing series should not go towards enriching a few select people or shareholders.

Either the teams setup their own series or buy out F1 as is and proceed from there, as proposed by Mateschitz recently.

[JeremySmith]

F1 is not dead it just smells funny...Change the guard, it's time...

[Pingguest]

Problem: Lack of reach to major markets when less important ones have races.
Solution: Each continent should have at least one race per season. Currently Africa and North-America don't have any race. Give privileges to the traditional races on the calendar (Britain, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Japan), have at least two races per season in the USA and make other countries and/or circuits to alternate.

Problem: Lack of overtaking, close racing and entertainment.
Solution: Abolition of all artificial rules (post-qualifying parc fermé, mandatory compound switch, knock-out qualifying format, enforced life span of components, standardized parts). Making close racing possible again by (taking the 2008 rules as the basics) eliminating the diffuser, reducing both the front and rear wing to one element only, lowering the front wing to the same level as the reference plane, positioning the rear wing a pre-1983 position, eliminating high nose cones by making the reference plane to start in front of the front wheel axle. Making drivers to pass by banning mid-race refuelling, tyre warmers and reduced pit lane speed limit and reintroduction of the pre-2003 point scoring system. Making the drivers to race again by eliminating all driver aids (active/electronic differentials, tyre warmers, semi-automatic gearboxes, drive-by-wire).

Problem: Manufactures leaving the sports
Solution: Don't try to make them stay by introducing 'cost-cutting' measures. Costs aren't the problem, but the lack of road relevance. Allow manufactures to develop more road relevant but still novel technologies. This will enable manufactures to justify their large budgets. Make manufacturers to develop clean and fuel efficient engines by allowing any bio-fuel and introducing a energy flow limit (e.g. by fuel flow limits differing per bio-fuel).

Problem: Privateers leaving the sports
Solution: Allow the customer chassis. To protect the smaller constructors teams with a customer chassis should receive any of the television revenues. Allow teams to use different liveries per car.

Problem: Not enough cars on the starting grid
Solution: Allow teams to run with a minimum of one car and a maximum of three cars.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Problem: Lack of overtaking, close racing and entertainment.
Solution: Abolition of all artificial rules (post-qualifying parc fermé, mandatory compound switch, knock-out qualifying format, enforced life span of components, standardized parts). Making close racing possible again by (taking the 2008 rules as the basics) eliminating the diffuser, reducing both the front and rear wing to one element only, lowering the front wing to the same level as the reference plane, positioning the rear wing a pre-1983 position, eliminating high nose cones by making the reference plane to start in front of the front wheel axle. Making drivers to pass by banning mid-race refuelling, tyre warmers and reduced pit lane speed limit and reintroduction of the pre-2003 point scoring system. Making the drivers to race again by eliminating all driver aids (active/electronic differentials, tyre warmers, semi-automatic gearboxes, drive-by-wire).

What, exactly, makes your proposed limitations not "artificial"?

Eliminating the diffuser; limiting front and rear wings to one element, and dictating heights and attachment positions; creating parameters designed to prevent certain avenues of development; banning the option of refueling; banning tyre warmers; eliminating driver aids.

It is perfectly fair enough that you see these things as for the greater good, but I struggle to understand what prevents them from being "artificial"?

[ivanalesi]

I think budget cap along with much much more freedom in the rules will solve all the problems, we'll have many cars and all of them so much different in performance, always changing, very interesting for the car industry(though I'd prefer them just to sit and watch), with more different tracks and more rounds.
Also running F1 team would be profitable, the FIA and the teams also should invest in the grass roots of racing, because once you get hooked with karting you will be for live with F1

[TFHarv]

A very simplistic view of the main problems but here goes...

I reckon one of the major flaws to current F1 rules and regs is the fact that even if they wanted to they couldn't do something like bring a six wheel version of a car into life or create revolutionary engines that run on 2 pistons mounted in a triple K formation with uranium pistons that runs on budgie pee.

The rules just don't allow for innovation or radical idea changes that could change the state of the game and be transferable to road cars etc.

Yes the cars look and act different but not enough to say if they were all painted black they could be sold as one manufacturers car.

That's just the cars the management and moving of venues needs addressing too. Too much of F1 is money driven now rather than racing driven.

[Another Bob]

A lot of great ideas out there, it's good to see the passion, for my 2 cents worth;
Cut number of team members allowed in the entire pit complex to about 10 in total.
Limit total crew allowed in pit lane service area to 7.
Ban refuelling.
Bring back the 4 day Thursday to Sunday meets.
Keep the in season testing ban hence Thursday becomes a sudo test day.
Increase number of races to 20, with at least one in every continent.
Ban car to team instant telemetry systems, allow black box recording instead.
Introduce a control standard slight ground effect floor system to be used by every team.
Limit development of front & rear wing either by enforcing a simple design or introducing a control front and rear wing design.
Lift engine restrictions and only have some broad but solid engine rule outlines such as standard air intakes, a restricted exhaust size, and control ECU, minimum engine mass, minimum crankshaft mass, control flywheel etc, to allow some inovation and variation of engines including number of cylinders back into the formula.

A few here to argue the merits over.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Dutton

What, exactly, makes your proposed limitations not "artificial"?

Eliminating the diffuser; limiting front and rear wings to one element, and dictating heights and attachment positions; creating parameters designed to prevent certain avenues of development; banning the option of refueling; banning tyre warmers; eliminating driver aids.

It is perfectly fair enough that you see these things as for the greater good, but I struggle to understand what prevents them from being "artificial"?

Artificial rules are to 'spice up' the racing but take away the purity of the sports. Fernando Alonso won the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. Not because he was the fastest, was having the most reliable car, didn't make mistakes or even having the best pit strategy. No, he won because the Safety Car went out at the right moment!

In the ultimate drivers' championship races should be won and lost on the track, not by pit strategies and/or due to rules intentionally turning the race into a lottery.

As overtaking has become very difficult and as pit stops provide the perfect solution to make up places without passing anyone, races have become boring and predictable. Nowadays most races are decided during Saturday's qualifying session unless something completely unexpected happens, like rain. Sadly though it was impossible to change Formula 1 for a long time, so the FIA could only spice up the show by introducing some unexpected elements hoping it would work out the same way as rain does sometimes.

In most cases the artificial rules to spice up racing have changed virtually nothing (mandatory compound switch) but some others have a huge, and in my opinion devastating impact (post-qualifying parc fermé, Safety Car).

Instead of introducing those artificial rules wouldn't it be better to fix the lack of racing and to make it no longer necessary to turn the race into a lottery? Just make drivers to race each other. First by making it possible again to race (more mechanical grip, massive cut of downforce, elimination of all drivers aids) and second by taking away the alternatives for making up places (no refuelling and post-qualifying parc fermé).

[zac510]

Pingguest, then the fastest cars would have overtaken (easily, you say) by lap 5 and then you'll complain that the last half of the race was boring