The Mighty McLaren (dis) Organisation

[VIVA GT]

I always used to think that McLaren were the most professional, and organised team in Formula One. Over the past couple of years however huge cracks seem to be appearing...
There were numerous debacles in 2007 (leaving Lewis out on his wets for so long in China that they were so bald by the time he got back to the pits, he didn't get there being one). On Sunday we were treated to the embarassing situation of tyres not being ready when the car came in for a pit stop!
I don't swallow Martin Whitmarsh's excuses that they were expecting Lewis to come in one lap later, the team should have been ready!
What is going on?

[Cameron Winton]

Mclaren are a victim of a self perpetuated image that they are the perfect team where nothing goes wrong etc. Random events and normal human error mean no matter how much preparation, strategising, scenario building, simulations etc, they are racing very competively and the necessary risks will always end up making events look a bit cack handed.
I actually buy into Martin Whitmarsh's explanation from Sunday. They took a big risk and it didn't pay off. They needed that risk to do something about Barrichello's outright speed which he seemed to have all weekend. Gave us something to talk about after a processional race?

[zac510]

Not to mention when you're up the top for so long the people underneath want nothing but to shoot you down!

[GolddustMini]

yes they have made some mess ups but in the past but i think sundays incident was one of confusion and lewis came in on the lap he was expecting to and this happened to be a lap before the teams amended strategy had him coming in, once he was comitted to the pitlane they could only rush to get everything out in the 10 second it takes for him to arrive. remember that the teams strategy is not fixed and it is constantly changing due to measurements of fuel usage, tyrewear and all the other cars in the race.

obiously it takes longer to get the wheels from the garage, unplug the warmers and get to the correct corner of the car and unwrap them than it does to run out into the pitlane with a nutgun and that is the delay we saw.

[sizzle]

Ever heard of a radio!!!!!

This is the pinnacle of motorsport. Just admit they cocked it up and looked like an amatuer outfit.

[GolddustMini]

it was a late radio call, they only decided that they were certain they had enough fuel for that extra lap late on in the previous lap, once the radio call was made lewis had already committed himself to the pitlane (via his line and speed into the last corner), so it was too late.

and looking amateur, i dont really think so

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

it was a late radio call, they only decided that they were certain they had enough fuel for that extra lap late on in the previous lap, once the radio call was made lewis had already committed himself to the pitlane (via his line and speed into the last corner), so it was too late.

and looking amateur, i dont really think so

So up until they made the late call, that you yourself said was too late for Lewis to change his committment to pitlane, the pit crew were sitting on the bum because they were fortune tellers.....Plllleeeeaaaase.

[Bononi]

It looks like the usual McLaren to me.

[jab]

All teams make mistakes. Even Ferrari in the Schumacher era - including the famous "malmisorganisation problem" of Nurby 99

[Graz]

It's not only the last few years. McLaren have always been like this. Led by Ron Denis and his bordering on OCD levels of attention to detail, they have tied themselves up in knots and made bizare decisions and indecisions. And this has always been thus in my view of them, not just the last few years.

Denis has made it worse by being so utterly snobbish and constantly pushing the notion of his team's professionalism and perfection as being above everyone else. He really comes across as a throughly dislikeable character who looks down his nose at everybody which makes it all the more gleeful for people when McLaren fail.

[foreversideways]

I find it hard to understand why it took Martin Whitmarsh several minutes to explain what could easily have been explained in 30 seconds by saying with a smile and i chuckle that we made a cock up but we don't think that it cost us the race.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I don't swallow Martin Whitmarsh's excuses that they were expecting Lewis to come in one lap later, the team should have been ready!
What is going on?

I take it you've never made a mistake then

As for China 2007, wasn't that more Lewis's call?

Sure, they made a mistake, but it didn't cost them the race, it cost them maybe 3-4 seconds and Lewis came out nearly 7 seconds behind iirc.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Graz

It's not only the last few years. McLaren have always been like this. Led by Ron Denis and his bordering on OCD levels of attention to detail, they have tied themselves up in knots and made bizare decisions and indecisions. And this has always been thus in my view of them, not just the last few years.

Denis has made it worse by being so utterly snobbish and constantly pushing the notion of his team's professionalism and perfection as being above everyone else. He really comes across as a throughly dislikeable character who looks down his nose at everybody which makes it all the more gleeful for people when McLaren fail.

It's funny what people see in some that others don't like. I've always liked Ron Dennis even if he does seem "superior" to other's, and i doubt that he or the team wouldn't have been so successful if he wasn't the way was/is.

Give me Ron Dennis over someone like Eddie Jordan anyday!

[foreversideways]

Originally Posted by Mr V

It's funny what people see in some that others don't like. I've always liked Ron Dennis even if he does seem "superior" to other's, and i doubt that he or the team wouldn't have been so successful if he wasn't the way was/is.

Give me Ron Dennis over someone like Eddie Jordan anyday!

Goodness no, I would rather take Eddie Jordan to the pub with me every time, well having said that i doubt Ron Dennis is the type to go to the pub for a laugh and a few pints anyway. He always reminds me of those poor people who have to wash the taps before and after they use them.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by foreversideways

Goodness no, I would rather take Eddie Jordan to the pub with me every time, well having said that i doubt Ron Dennis is the type to go to the pub for a laugh and a few pints anyway. He always reminds me of those poor people who have to wash the taps before and after they use them.

My cousin has been in a pub at the same time as EJ (not with him i might add) while EJ was "the worst for wear" and trying to fight everyone.

The impression i get with RD is, we, the public don't know the real RD, ask someone like Gerhard Berger what the real, fun loving RD is ilke.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I've always liked Ron Dennis even if he does seem "superior" to other's, and i doubt that he or the team wouldn't have been so successful if he wasn't the way was/is.

You are right to a point but he took it too far to the detriment of the team. He was too much of a control freak and became overly obsessed with perfection. McLaren would have taken a step forward had RD stepped down earlier, say after the Hakkinen era.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Mr V

My cousin has been in a pub at the same time as EJ (not with him i might add) while EJ was "the worst for wear" and trying to fight everyone.

The impression i get with RD is, we, the public don't know the real RD, ask someone like Gerhard Berger what the real, fun loving RD is ilke.

I've seen EJ "the worst for wear". In the Donington bar in the days when it was in the Foyer of the collection, when the circuit first reopened. He was doing Irish Jigs in the middle of the room, but disappeared in a cloud of tyre smoke when told he only had an hour to catch the ferry in Liverpool!

As for RD. I think maybe there's a much more relaxed and affable persona that we don't often get to see.

As for cock ups in the pits. Ferrari got the biggest laugh last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHuhgC9tEyo

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I take it you've never made a mistake then

As for China 2007, wasn't that more Lewis's call?

Sure, they made a mistake, but it didn't cost them the race, it cost them maybe 3-4 seconds and Lewis came out nearly 7 seconds behind iirc.

Oh, I've made loads of mistakes myself, but none as publically as McLaren appear to have done over the past few years.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but if ever any of the teams I've Race-Managed over the years looked as silly as McLaren did on Sunday I'd hang my head in shame!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Maybe I'm overreacting, but if ever any of the teams I've Race-Managed over the years looked as silly as McLaren did on Sunday I'd hang my head in shame!

You've never managed any F1 team then? Or maybe you have,and you've hung your head in shame?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Marbot

You've never managed any F1 team then? Or maybe you have,and you've hung your head in shame?

Sorry, should have qualified my statement (that's the problem with doing tjhis whilst at work and getting interruptions, I forget where I'd got to...)
No, I've never been anywhere near as high-end as F1 only Saloon and Touring Cars, but would still have been highly embarrassed if that'd happened to me.

[Marbot]

Whether or not it affected the result it was still very amateurish to say the least and evidently quite dangerous!

Whitmarsh did admit that they need to have a look at what happened and how a similar incident could be avoided in future.Tyres nearer to the front of the garage and no tyre warmers would be a start!

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I always used to think that McLaren were the most professional, and organised team in Formula One. Over the past couple of years however huge cracks seem to be appearing...
There were numerous debacles in 2007 (leaving Lewis out on his wets for so long in China that they were so bald by the time he got back to the pits, he didn't get there being one). On Sunday we were treated to the embarassing situation of tyres not being ready when the car came in for a pit stop!
I don't swallow Martin Whitmarsh's excuses that they were expecting Lewis to come in one lap later, the team should have been ready!
What is going on?

I hope you aren't serious. This is a team that went from having one of the worst chassis on the grid 4 races ago, to having back to back podiums and a win. For shame that they should have one tire screw-up on an unscheduled pitstop.



For shame.

[foreversideways]

Hey i admit it, i have looked a fool many times in motor racing. Non more so than when i did my first Formula Ford Festival back in 1981. Great qualifying and heat, through to the quarters and forgot to put the petrol in. Back then you drove round and they sat you on the grid for 5 minutes. So out i went and found myself stuttering my way onto the grid, jumped out and was running around like a headless chicken. Fortunately someone from Minsters (engine builders) calmed me down and filled me up on the grid. All to no avail as i was so wound up i threw it off at paddock first time round.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

I hope you aren't serious. This is a team that went from having one of the worst chassis on the grid 4 races ago, to having back to back podiums and a win. For shame that they should have one tire screw-up on an unscheduled pitstop.



For shame.

That is exactly my point. On one hand, multiple World Championship winning team, have turned themselves (and car) around this year to be race winners (which looked impossible at the beginning of this season.
On the other hand, they appear like a bunch of amateurs with peculiar strategy calls, mis-handling of drivers, and the latest debacle, a bungled pit stop. (I wasn't just didd-ing them on that, it was just the latest example of dis-organisation that I was referring to).
I have no personal vendetta against the team, I admire their achievements, I am just seriously mystified by their actions on occasions, that's all.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

That is exactly my point. On one hand, multiple World Championship winning team, have turned themselves (and car) around this year to be race winners (which looked impossible at the beginning of this season.
On the other hand, they appear like a bunch of amateurs with peculiar strategy calls, mis-handling of drivers, and the latest debacle, a bungled pit stop. (I wasn't just didd-ing them on that, it was just the latest example of dis-organisation that I was referring to).
I have no personal vendetta against the team, I admire their achievements, I am just seriously mystified by their actions on occasions, that's all.

Force India and Red Bull are the only two teams that I can think of that haven't done something like that this year, and Force India probably has, you just don't notice because you haven't seen their pitstops as much.