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22 Aug 2011, 09:22 (Ref:2944021) | #1 | |
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porsche 918 vs 997
Hello all,
I was wondering: with this new 918 in development, when will it replace the 997 (in racing series)? I mean the 997 is quite an old car, its racing in lms since 2007, although it received several upgrades in the past, but nothing extraordinary. Can racing versions of the 918 replace the current 997 porsches in LMS, ALMS, FIA GT3EC... ? I heard no news about porsche developing different versions of the car for racing in different series. |
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22 Aug 2011, 09:24 (Ref:2944022) | #2 | ||
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Short answer: no. The 918 will be produced in very small numbers so it isn't eligible for homologation. Plus a racing version of it would be a lot more expensive than the 997 RSR, therefore cost-prohibitive.
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22 Aug 2011, 11:41 (Ref:2944077) | #3 | |
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The 2012 911(991) will replace the 997 but I haven't seen anything about when the GT2/3 models would be released. Assume since no comments or hints yet it would be tested in 2012 with its release to teams for the 2013 seasons?
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/spi...os-future_cars some good info they have gathered on the new 911 model |
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22 Aug 2011, 16:15 (Ref:2944216) | #4 | |
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If the 991 doesn't cut, and there's no reason to suggest it won't, the obvious replacement would be the Cayman.
For that to happen Porsche would have to realign their road car line-up, moving the 911 into a Grand Touring role, and producing higher spec Caymans. |
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22 Aug 2011, 16:35 (Ref:2944231) | #5 | |||
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ACO homologation require construction of 1 car per week for large manufacturers, and as Porsche plan to build +/-1000 cars, I don't think that this is the sticking point. We are in complete agreement concerning the cost, but more due to the hybrid technology currently in the 918RSR. Anyway - there are strong rumors that Porsche will bring out a 458 competitor in about two -three years time. This will be a new mid-engined car that will be marketed between the 991 and the 918. Price is rumored to be between 300K and 400K Euro. GT3 991 is only forecasted for late 2013/ begining of 2014 so I'm not sure we will see a track oriented 991 before then. |
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22 Aug 2011, 16:50 (Ref:2944240) | #6 | ||
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In 2-3 years 458 wont be produced anymore, its replacement is due in 2013-14 the 458M (probably similar upgrade that 575 was to 550)
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
22 Aug 2011, 20:02 (Ref:2944367) | #7 | ||
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22 Aug 2011, 21:10 (Ref:2944409) | #8 | ||
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mid-engined V8 ferraris were aways 911 turbo competitors, while their more striped versions were competitiors to the gt3 and gt3 RS.
360 Modena 996 turbo/S 360 CS 996 GT3/RS F430 997 Turbo/S F430 Scud 997 GT3/RS it seems logical that the real competior to the 458 is 997.2 Turbo/s and to its more extream version 997.2 gt3 RS 4.0. while the 458M will be 991 Turbo..... so I gues the porsche positioned above 911 and below 918 doesent really have ferrari competiton. maybe 599 replacement.. |
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
22 Aug 2011, 22:59 (Ref:2944463) | #9 | ||
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991 the "next gen" 911 is a lot different from all other porsches, it has a longer wheel base, it wasn't a decision took on the design board but a decision that had to be made by US emission rules, it's quite a strange business...
i don't think that this will be a good base as all the other 911 have been for all these years for a racing version, but Porsche always comes up with a surprise, GT3 models should be up in the market in 2012/2013, so in the best option porsche teams should go all along trough a very difficult 2012 year. this can be confirmed also by the fact that the new 911 GT3 Cup car will launched in 2013... i think that's time is good enough to launch a Cayman RSR, but with BoP and all the new bull**** that's coming along in GT racing (look at Spa 24h "65' rule") the new 991 platform could still be competitive in the next years... 918 RSR was a good marketing experiment but i find it difficult to happen as an ACO "GTE" racing car, maybe a FIA GT1 "Special"? |
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23 Aug 2011, 07:03 (Ref:2944538) | #10 | ||
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I actually think that the 918 RSR "project" is dead. I hope I'm wrong, but....
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23 Aug 2011, 07:08 (Ref:2944541) | #11 | |||
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The MSRP for a Turbo S is $160,700 (USA). Not exactly market competitors are they? |
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23 Aug 2011, 09:21 (Ref:2944597) | #12 | ||
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I remember reading the 918 was only going to be used until 2013, probably as an unclassified entry like the 911 Hybrid wherever it might run and I suppose as a testbed of sorts for some of the tech going into the LMP1 car? |
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23 Aug 2011, 10:04 (Ref:2944608) | #13 | ||
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That's what I thought too, but everything has gotten terribly silent involving this project. Porsche seem happy to show this car (which they are doing a lot of) in various Porsche events, but the "idea" that is being left amongst those that attend these meetings, is that the 918 RSR is more of a "concept car" rather than a project that will see some track time within the near future.
Please note: This is the "idea" that many who attend these meetings are left with. This does not mean that it is the truth. Anyway - Lets see what 2012 brings. |
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23 Aug 2011, 11:39 (Ref:2944643) | #14 | ||
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there are no market competitors to any Ferrari! as always all ferraris are sold out before they are built, years in advance, so there is no competition. Ferrari sells 6000 cars yearly porsche 100 000+. so comparing cars on price is rediculus, I was refering to performance...
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
23 Aug 2011, 11:44 (Ref:2944645) | #15 | |||
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Quote:
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23 Aug 2011, 12:53 (Ref:2944666) | #16 | |
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23 Aug 2011, 13:09 (Ref:2944669) | #17 | |||
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What Porschephiles are talking about when they say a F458 "competitor" is in terms of price, performance, and type (i.e mid-engined). Oh! and BTW - Porsche unit sales will maybe reach 100K this year , but we are talking about total unit sales 5 model ranges. |
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23 Aug 2011, 14:00 (Ref:2944683) | #18 | |||
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Quote:
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__________________
To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
23 Aug 2011, 14:43 (Ref:2944695) | #19 | |||
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That is why Porsche are interested in the F458 " price territory". They have a product that is over the F price and they have many products under. Now they want one that is comparable. |
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23 Aug 2011, 14:55 (Ref:2944697) | #20 | ||
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But if you step away from this as a fan or either Porsche or Ferrari and from a purely business perspective, if there is a market for cars at the same price range of a 458 then why not play in that market? Why should anyone assume that Ferrari will always own the majority of that pie? If you then step away from the road car sales pitches and look at racing, then I would agree that a car that is potentially targeted at the 458 (or whatever replaces it in the future) might also make a good start for a competitor on the track. Richard |
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23 Aug 2011, 15:22 (Ref:2944707) | #21 | |||
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Quote:
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__________________
To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
23 Aug 2011, 16:05 (Ref:2944719) | #22 | ||
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Of course, this is all speculation about a car that Porsche has yet to formally announce and even then, they still have to build a better and more desirable car. Richard |
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23 Aug 2011, 20:05 (Ref:2944799) | #23 | |
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just heard this news about the new porsche 961... maybe that will be their weapon of choce against the ferrari 458/458M.
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23 Aug 2011, 22:51 (Ref:2944863) | #24 | ||
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First images of the future Porsche 961. The front look pretty similar to 918. The 961 seems to be longer than the 918.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au..._revealed.html I remember reading that the Porsche 911 GT2/GTE (Aco Rules) used a mid-engined. The same I remember reading for the BMW M3 GT2/GTE used a front mid-engined. Is this true? Do the ACO Rules allow this modifications? |
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24 Aug 2011, 01:29 (Ref:2944890) | #25 | ||
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Why not power the 961 with a twin turbo variant of the flat 6? Saves some weight, makes it able to have the engine lower for better weight distribution and would make for a very good race car should a 961 GT RSR rock up.
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