Vettel down to 5th after penalty

[schead]

Hooray!!!

Too right. Cheating Red Bull managed to dodge 1 cheat, at least Vettel was penalised for the second.

[Peter Mallett]

Link?

[schead]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Link?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101426

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks.

[Marbot]

A pity that it couldn't have been decided before the race had finished. Probably not done on purpose, but rules is rules.

[Bononi]

Fair enough.

[Mr V]

Montoya, among others did the same in 2005 without penalty. Yet again no consistancy.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Montoya, among others did the same in 2005 without penalty. Yet again no consistancy.

Maybe the regulations were different back then?

[ztnedman1]

Un ****ing real.

So he is in front goes off to give jenson room then gets the penalty? If he didnt then Benson would have collided with him. Wheres Bensons penatly for not leaving space?

Ferrari finally has a chance to win a championship again and the post race penatlies in their favor come back. Go figure.

I thought the whole point of their new stewards deal was to avoid this crap. For a few years it went away and now post race time penatlies are back. What a joke.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maybe the regulations were different back then?

Different stewards as well.

[Purist]

It's been done before with no penalty. It happens when negotiating lapped cars. Sorry, off track should be off limits, period! No excuses! They enforced NO penalties for people getting four wheels off the track all over the place today.

I expect and demand consistency in these matters. If using the run-off is okay for one man, it must be okay for everyone. If it is unacceptable for one man to use that area, it must be unacceptable for anyone to make use of it. They have video of the whole damn race, so anything less is not good enough!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ztnedman1

Un ****ing real.

Wheres Bensons penatly for not leaving space?

Maldonado might have asked the same thing of Hamilton a couple of weeks back.

I thought that 'Benson' left Vettel far too much space, but Vettel didn't feel the need to use it.

But yes, you're right. F1 is just a big fat stinking conspiracy to make Ferrari come out on top every season.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maybe the regulations were different back then?

I believe the regulations have changed, I'm not sure what year but I think around 06/07/08 they made some changes to the "respecting track limits." I know Le Mans/ACO racing and British racing have cracked down on it a lot more recently than they used to.

[Tim Falce]

I thought they'd changed the regs, or ruling, in the last couple of weeks.

[garcon]

I wonder if the stewards might have made a different decision if Vettel hadn't repeatedly gone four wheels off at various points on the circuit throughout the race?

It seems 20 seconds is the minimum penalty they can give post race, which perhaps makes it a little harsh. In this case 10 seconds would seem to be fair - that would have just knocked him back to third.

[BSchneiderFan]

It seems fair to me. Seb went fully off the track to pass. If it'd been a wall instead of a white line, he couldn't have made the pass and wouldn't (or shouldn't) have tried.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maybe the regulations were different back then?

How can going off the circuit be different?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by ztnedman1

Un ****ing real.

So he is in front goes off to give jenson room then gets the penalty? If he didnt then Benson would have collided with him. Wheres Bensons penatly for not leaving space?

I thought the whole point of their new stewards deal was to avoid this crap. For a few years it went away and now post race time penatlies are back. What a joke.

WHATTTT?!?!?!?! Jenson does not EVER have to give him room to come back on track. You dive in the corner and can't make it stick without going off that's your fault. Button didn't push him off, just took a smooth although tight to the apex line and squared it off at lower speed but he was in position to make that line work. Was Vettel's job to make his line work within the bounds of the track and the car he was trying to pass, going outside not just the white lines but a couple feet of rumble strip is NOT making the pass work within the rules.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by garcon

I wonder if the stewards might have made a different decision if Vettel hadn't repeatedly gone four wheels off at various points on the circuit throughout the race?

Alonso did the same continualy at the last corner too

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Different stewards as well.

The FIAs finest.

Originally Posted by Purist

It's been done before with no penalty. It happens when negotiating lapped cars. Sorry, off track should be off limits, period! No excuses! They enforced NO penalties for people getting four wheels off the track all over the place today.

I expect and demand consistency in these matters. If using the run-off is okay for one man, it must be okay for everyone. If it is unacceptable for one man to use that area, it must be unacceptable for anyone to make use of it. They have video of the whole damn race, so anything less is not good enough!

The exception seemed to be one man running off track and gaining an advantage. Normally you wouldn't gain any advantage by running wide on a corner.

Legitimate excuses for running off track:

1. I drive an HRT.
2. I drive the other HRT.
3. I drive an HRT, but I'm not sure that I'm making much difference to the cars behaviour by using the steering wheel and pressing the pedals.
4. It was raining when I got to that corner and on the next lap it had stopped raining at that corner.
5. He shoved me off track.
6. My tyres are worn.
7. I was trying to overtake Maldonado.
8. I was trying to overtake Hamilton.
9. I can't drive for toffee.
10. I was waving to my Mum.

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I thought they'd changed the regs, or ruling, in the last couple of weeks.

Even as late as the driver briefing.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Alonso did the same continualy at the last corner too

Someone else mentioned that. Must admit I hadn't noticed, but then I only watched the highlights.

I suppose the argument would be that he didn't gain an obvious advantage, but you have to wonder whether, aggregated together, it just kept him that fraction out of Jenson's reach - if indeed there is a time saving.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by garcon

Someone else mentioned that. Must admit I hadn't noticed, but then I only watched the highlights.

I suppose the argument would be that he didn't gain an obvious advantage, but you have to wonder whether, aggregated together, it just kept him that fraction out of Jenson's reach - if indeed there is a time saving.

Feranado, being Fernando doesn't do anything unless it advantages him. By going off the circuit it seemed to give him a straighter line onto the start/finish straight.

Dispite being a Vettel fan, i do agree that he gained an advantage over Jenson, but fact remains that over the years, so many drivers have made the same pass without being penalised. There is no consistancy at all.

[Purist]

If you put wheels off, and maintain your gaps, you've "gained an advantage". It may not be a position, but if it was grass, or a wall, you would have lost time.

In my mind, if you don't want guys abusing it, don't bloody pave it in the first frickin' place!

It's been paved now though, and going off is NOT be punished at all consistently, so as far as I'm concerned, anything is fair game, and no penalty for it has any legitimacy now!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

How can going off the circuit be different?

There were more gravel traps back then, so maybe less opportunity to run wide and more opportunity to bring your race to an end.

Throughout the whole race, the only visible advantage gained by someone going off track was that of Vettel passing Button.

What if it were a wet race and cars were continually running off and coming back onto the circuit. What then?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

It's the FIA so I'm not sure why people are the slightest bit suprised. Mind you consistency has been a problem in multiple series including those not with FIA stewards.