Steve Neal comments and marshal performance

[Craner Curves]

Well that was dramatic. What the heck's going on today with all these mechanical DNFs? It's hardly a car breaker of a circuit.

As for Steve Neal's crass comments about the marshals, maybe he should spend a day with them, rather than doing his usual grumpy old man routine and putting his foot in his mouth.

[bella]

i couldn't believe what steve neal was saying. what a complete plank.

there needs to be a genuine public apology and a financial gesture to charity to make up for that crap. he ought to remember he's just another drivers dad paying for his son to go and play racing cars.

[simmo151]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

As for Steve Neal's crass comments about the marshals, maybe he should spend a day with them, rather than doing his usual grumpy old man routine and putting his foot in his mouth.

Doubt Steve Neal has ran far with a fire bottle, theyre heavy and us marshals put our safety first over a car. What a wally!

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

I agree with him - fire Marshall was hardly quick to respond to a fire. Could have been a lot worse!

Neate has been dreadful today and shouldn't be in BTCC.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

I agree with him - fire Marshall was hardly quick to respond to a fire. Could have been a lot worse!

How could he respond quicker when Matt Neal seemed to take an age to come to a complete halt, with cars going past at racing speed?

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

How could he respond quicker when Matt Neal seemed to take an age to come to a complete halt, with cars going past at racing speed?

He was stationary for a while whilst the first was just let to burn. Not good enough.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

He was stationary for a while whilst the first was just let to burn. Not good enough.

It didn't help that he parked between two posts. I'd like to see you do better in that situation, Alex.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

He was stationary for a while whilst the first was just let to burn. Not good enough.

I'd rather see the car totally destroyed and burnt to a crisp than a marshall killed putting it out.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

It didn't help that he parked between two posts. I'd like to see you do better in that situation, Alex.

Alex? What are you talking about?

I saw him just stood there whilst Matt had to take the extinguisher off him.

There we go. Steve's apologised, everyone's happy.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by awrb

I'd rather see the car totally destroyed and burnt to a crisp than a marshall killed putting it out.

Don't exaggerate.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

I agree with him - fire Marshall was hardly quick to respond to a fire.

Money where mouth is, sunshine. You are welcome to come along to any race meeting, or even better a training day, and put your observations in the appropriate context.

That wall is 5 feet high there. Jumping down under race conditions is a bad idea - even worse with a burning car when carrying a fire extinguisher.

Happy to see Neal Senior apologise.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by Greem

Money where mouth is, sunshine. You are welcome to come along to any race meeting, or even better a training day, and put your observations in the appropriate context.

That wall is 5 feet high there. Jumping down under race conditions is a bad idea - even worse with a burning car when carrying a fire extinguisher.

Happy to see Neal Senior apologise.

Sorry, you know nothing about me? I've marshalled before think you'll find I am allowed to criticise something too. Marshals aren't immune to negative comments.

Don't be so over-protective.

[markreeves]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Neal Snr comments on the marshall were dissapointing, they do a great job and dont get paid but are fully trained professionals

I dont want to open the whole marshall can of worms here, but why is it that people think just because marshall's dont get paid they are imune to criticism, yes they do a good job and do it for the love of the sport but mistakes do get made (rarely I know), All I'm trying to say is why can't they take constructive criticism rather than come out with the classic "We are the lifeblood of motorsport if you think you can do a better job come and have a go"

For me, its just the same as people saying a driver didint drive well in a race for example someone like Dan Welch and the majority of the grid dont get paid to drive but i'm sure if he made a big mistake or wiped a couple of cars out people would comment on it.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by markreeves

I dont want to open the whole marshall can of worms here, but why is it that people think just because marshall's dont get paid they are imune to criticism, yes they do a good job and do it for the love of the sport but mistakes do get made (rarely I know), All I'm trying to say is why can't they take constructive criticism rather than come out with the classic "We are the lifeblood of motorsport if you think you can do a better job come and have a go"

We're open to constructive criticism and can be very self-critical as well when we get things wrong. One of the best lessons I've been taught when on post is to watch what adjacent teams are doing and think about whether it could be handled better.

The two issues here were that it was plain criticism (not constructive) and it was also wrong - there was an extinguisher playing on the fire from the bank very soon after the car stopped. It was the one that Matt grabbed off the marshal using it, which he really didn't need to do. It was more important at that stage for him to get up on the wall out of danger (if you watched race one you'll remember seeing Mat Jackson stood at the trackside edge of the gravel trap until Tony Gilham planted the Thorney car in it). Second bottle was there in the time it took the marshal to get down from the wall, be handed the bottle and run with it to the car.

There's not much to be improved on there in my view - driver's out of the car and safe, which is far and away the most important thing. The next thing is to deal with fire without putting anyone else in danger. State of the car afterwards is a long way down the list.

[Greem]

I'm the first to concede if I cock up (and I have done so in one or two pretty spectacular ways).

My previous post on this matter was based on the fact that *every* *single* *incident* on TV that involves a fire, or a recovery, or a live snatch, or any number of other things happening on a live circuit where driver's lives (and those of others) are at risk results in someone immediately making critical comments - not constructive ones, either. There's a massive difference between "That could have been a little quicker" and what Neal Senior said (and trust me on this, the incident officer and post chief in that area will have been quick to offer their comments on the matter to the marshals involved. We are our own harshest critics, and reflection is a useful aid to us all).

In this incident I don't think there was a lot to criticise, really - Matt parked the car, and an extinguisher was aimed at the fire almost immediately.

I am man enough to admit that the poster to whom I was responding had rattled me, and if that's got up anyone's nose I apologise - it wasn't the intention.

I will however stand by the offer: if anyone who has never been out trackside at a race meeting wants to at the start of 2013, let me know. I'm happy to arrange a Ten-Tenths Taster Day at a track in the East Midlands...

[Icebaby]

Should a driver be taking fire extingusher of a marshall, are they trained to use them?

[adstubbs]

My 2 cents on the Neal fire - I've marshalled at that very point,and the wall is more like 6ft high. To get down safely from it to track level with a fire bottle is not the work of a moment. Not a lot of good getting there with a fire bottle and a broken ankle, is there? Steve Neal's comments were unjustified - if a football team manager said something like that about a match official they would be hauled in front of the FA, I doubt the MSA will be doing anything about Neal though. Not any concern of mine though, as I decided several years ago to stop marshalling BTCC meetings; poor grids, abysmal driving standards and the attitude such as displayed by Neal Snr made me realise that my time was better spent either at home or at a club-level race meeting where I feel appreciated. Rant mode disengaged

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Same as when the Marshall's buggered up at Brands at the start of the season, think they are immune to criticism because they are the "life of the sport".

Get real.

[adstubbs]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

Same as when the Marshall's buggered up at Brands at the start of the season, think they are immune to criticism because they are the "life of the sport".

Get real.

I don't think that's correct at all - as previously stated, criticism if it's constructive and (here's the key) justified is fair enough, but an unsubstantiated attack does nobody any good

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Gloria LeicesterFan

Same as when the Marshall's buggered up at Brands at the start of the season, think they are immune to criticism because they are the "life of the sport".

Get real.

They did'nt - it's a design flaw of race cars. & we're not immune to criticism. But in 20 odd years I've heard a lot of crap from ********s like you.

Get really real.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by adstubbs

I don't think that's correct at all - as previously stated, criticism if it's constructive and (here's the key) justified is fair enough, but an unsubstantiated attack does nobody any good

True, but my "attack" as you so dramatically put it, wasn't unsubstantiated.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

They did'nt - it's a design flaw of race cars. & we're not immune to criticism. But in 20 odd years I've heard a lot of crap from ********s like you.

Get really real.

So - I'm not allowed to criticise something, but it's okay for you to go around swearing and insulting members for no reason?

That makes sense...

[pauln]

You've made an assertion in very strong terms about the abilities of the people concerned. You've not provided any evidence to back it up. Doesn't sound substantiated to me.

oh, for an old-fashioned newsgroups style killfile.

[Gloria LeicesterFan]

Originally Posted by pauln

You've made an assertion in very strong terms about the abilities of the people concerned. You've not provided any evidence to back it up. Doesn't sound substantiated to me.

oh, for an old-fashioned newsgroups style killfile.

Think you'll find I have. Please read posts correctly in future.

As I said, I can't criticise somebody, but somebody can swear and insult me for no reason. Great rules on this forum.

[pauln]

I'm afraid you haven't (and I can read perfectly well thank you).

All you said was ""same as when the Marshall's buggered up at Brands at the start of the season". You haven't said what that was. You *have* ignored the comments that I and others have made pointing out why we think the Neal incident this afternoon was at least reasonably well handled and why we think Steve Neal's comments were inappropriate.

If all you are prepared to do is dish out insults (fair play - without swearing) then there's no point attempting to have a discussion with you.