Who is the second best driver in F1

[cds_uk]

In no way whatsoever am i a Schuey fan but it has to be said he is head and shoulders above the rest at the moment, to be honest he has been for the last decade, but as the title says who is the next best, i think the rest of the pack have let themselves down this year, Kimi and JPM in particular, best of the rest in my opinion, again not a real fan, Alonso.

[TeddyG]

Hands down Jacques Villeneuve...last man to beat Schumi head to head. Only other world champ who still wants to race. Just needs the car...give it to him Frank!

[Adam43]

Originally posted by TeddyG
Hands down Jacques Villeneuve...last man to beat Schumi head to head.

I think that was another retired champion. You might miss JV, but I miss Mika (although I manage to not mention him every thread )

For the sake of this forum and everyones' sanity. Lets keep it to drivers 'In F1' now.

When JV comes back we can do this again if you like Teddy.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think it's between Kimi and JPM. Both have a lot in their favour, although it's tempting to think that Kimi has more potential to improve. Their dual in 2005 will be great, and probably hugely significant in shaping the future of F1.

[Jordi]

OK:

-Off F1: Jacques!
-In F1: Alonso and Kimi.

[James Kimbley]

JV, Hopefully he be back in a Williams next season, he the only one with the talent the skills and the balls to take on MS without losing his cool.

[jj2728]

at the moment...i'd say kimi...montoya just doesn't do it for me....he reminds me too much of reuttemann....on his day.....untouchable....but when things were off....they were REALLY off...and i agree with adam.....jv is not IN f1 at the moment...let's reserve judgement until he returns...if he does.....

[Kirk]

With the state of F1 now, it's very difficult to rate drivers after MS.... and since JV isn't there at the moment I'd rate Kimi as number 2.

[Kicking-back]

Kimi Raikkonen.

Quick, consistent, polished.

[F3lollipops]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Kimi Raikkonen.

Quick, consistent, polished.

... and dull as ditchwater

[Nick Brown]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Kimi Raikkonen.

Quick, consistent, polished.

but out classed over a season by Nick Heidfeld

[jetsetter]

At this point in time i'd say Alonso although there is nothing between a whole group of drivers.

[Schummy]

In terms of race pace and fighting spirit (-> racecraft) I think Alonso is the only one who compares to MS. I'd put Kimi second and maybe JPM third but I'd like to follow the development of sato and Button and Webber in a worthy car (although I suspect "fast" Webber's strongest point isn't racecraft).

Because JV is not "officially" retired, I'm sorry to say that, in terms of comparison with team-mates I was not always impressed with JV as a superchampion. And I don't think he would be on the old top form if he comes back (he was not in his last season(s)).

[deeks6]

Levels

LEGEND - well, only Schumacher unfortunately
TOP CLASS POTENTIAL WDC - Alonso, Webber, Sato (just watch, I'll be proved right)
GOOD BUT NOT WDC MATERIAL - Montoya, Button, Raikkonnen, Heidfeld, Barrichello
DAVID COULTHARDS - Coulthard, Fisichella, Trulli, Gene, Ralf, Panis (these days), Glock, Davidson
WILD and WOOLLY or GENERALLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH - Massa, Klien, da Matta
HOPELESS ONLY THERE COZ SOMEONE PAID A LOT OF $$$ - Baumgartner, Bruni, Pantano

[fog_shadow]

kind of agree with most of what you wrote deeks6, however i'd think twice about bruni and baumgartner. OMG, you mention pantano in the last category as well, i suppose none of those three deserve the "hopeless" tag.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by deeks6

TOP CLASS POTENTIAL WDC - ......Sato (just watch, I'll be proved right)

I'll watch (occasionally when there are no soap re-runs or adverts to entertain me better), but I'll believe this when I see it......

[fog_shadow]

well if and that is a big if his engine stops blowing. kind of reminds me of rubens in ferrari. funny i suppose that no one is moaning about driver status at BAR.

fog_shadow

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by deeks6
Levels

LEGEND - well, only Schumacher unfortunately
TOP CLASS POTENTIAL WDC - Alonso, Webber, Sato (just watch, I'll be proved right)
GOOD BUT NOT WDC MATERIAL - Montoya, Button, Raikkonnen, Heidfeld, Barrichello
DAVID COULTHARDS - Coulthard, Fisichella, Trulli, Gene, Ralf, Panis (these days), Glock, Davidson
WILD and WOOLLY or GENERALLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH - Massa, Klien, da Matta
HOPELESS ONLY THERE COZ SOMEONE PAID A LOT OF $$$ - Baumgartner, Bruni, Pantano

"God but not WDC material" would be my typical description of DC (and a lot of the guys in both those categories - but rating Glock alongside a fairly impressive list on the basis of one fluky race seems crazy.

I can't believe you don't regard Kimi as a potential champion. What more does he have to do? And as for the next moron who mentions Heidfeld at Sauber - Nick had a year's F1 experience and 2 of F3000, Kimi had virtually nothing. Since Heidfeld generally outperformed the much mroe experienced and thoroughly legendary Alesi the previous year, you can't really criticise Kimi for it.

I think I'd go for something like:
LEGEND: Michael
POTENTIAL CHAMPIONS: Raikkonen, Sato, Alonso, Button
POTENTIAL CONSISTANT RACE WINNERS: Trulli, Davidson, Montoya, Rubens, Webber
CAPABLE OF SCORING REGULAR POINTS: DC, Ralf, Panis, Heidfeld, da Matta, Wirdheim
JUST ABOUT WORTHY OF A PLACE: Klien, Pantano, Massa, Gené, Glock
NOT GOOD ENOUGH: Baumgartner, Bruni, Leinders (poor old Minardi)

[Schummy]

I like this "levels" thing of deek.

I have put some middle level drivers (just to complicate more the thing )

LEGEND:        MS

TOP C. P. WDC: Alonso Raikk, 

               Monty Webber? Button Sato?

GOOD:          DC RB RS JT 

               Heidfeld Fisi

OK, THEY CAN BE IN F1: Gene Panis daMatta

               Massa Klien

HOPELESS:      Baumy Bruny? Panty ;)

[garcon]

Excellent thread! For one great reason: I have absolutely no idea! and it seems neither has anyone else (except maybe TeddyG )... perfect for a splendid debate...

This is one of the most positive factors in F1 today. Michael will, one day, eventually, decide he's had enough. And there are several drivers capable of winning a WDC when he's gone.

In no particular order, Montoya, Raikkonen, Barrichello, Alonso, Webber, Button, maybe Sato, maybe Ralf if he comes back well are all capable of winning the first post-Schumacher WDC, especially if it's closely faught. Some of them could even beat him before he retires.

[N I Tram]

I think Raikkonen has all the ingredients of a champion - fast, smooth, consistant, level-headed, hard-working and a natural leader. I'm not sure he'd be a good advert for it though, because he doesn't come across as interesting. From a media angle he's probably the least enticing of Garcon's list.

[Nick Brown]

NITram you've probably got it right with Raikkonen,however 3 years ago there was a headline "psychic wins lottery" a couple went to a psychic she gave them the numbers and they duly won the jackpot,i am however unsure as to why she did'nt put them on herself.What type of vehicle do you race?

[schuey01]

I would definitely say that the second best at the moment would have to be Alonso. It was proven this past weekend in France, in qualifying. As everyone noticed, Michael pitted first in the race! Obviously there was a fuel concern, but that breathes the question as to whether the less fuel he had than Alonso HELPED him qualify 2nd TO Alonso. If Michael or Ferrari is losing there touch than we are in for a very interesting year.

[Spritle]

It seems to me that the second best driver is the one behind the best driver in points:

Rubens Barrichello

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by schuey01
I would definitely say that the second best at the moment would have to be Alonso. It was proven this past weekend in France, in qualifying. As everyone noticed, Michael pitted first in the race! Obviously there was a fuel concern, but that breathes the question as to whether the less fuel he had than Alonso HELPED him qualify 2nd TO Alonso. If Michael or Ferrari is losing there touch than we are in for a very interesting year.

So he did one good qualifying lap? Big deal. His driving has been inconsistant all season, and it doesn't say a huge amount for him that he managed to lose out to Michael despite a much faster car.