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28 Sep 2009, 17:48 (Ref:2549919) | #1 | ||
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Drivers running out of brakes - the case for a rule change or two?
According to EJ on the BBC's Interactive Forum on Sunday and other sources Williams have vetoed a change to increase the width of the front brake discs by 4mm. It might harm overtaking, but at least it would stop Mark Webber-style brake failures. One thing I don't want to think about is the prospect of one of them running in to one of several corners at circuits like Ile De Notre Dame. An out of control car plowing in to the side of the pit garages would be disastrous.
Currently the parc ferme rules don't allow brake changes between qualifying and the race. Perhaps brake disc and pad changes could be allowed? Or would that be too little? |
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28 Sep 2009, 18:29 (Ref:2549953) | #2 | |
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Maybe F1 should move back to steel discs... the increased braking distances would also [hopefully] improve overtaking.
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28 Sep 2009, 18:33 (Ref:2549954) | #3 | ||
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Just like other things, do we need to take the driver out of racing any more? I mean, what ever happened to having to having to "save your brakes"? We should just keep idiot proofing this sport. Soon it will be remote control with all spectators watching from a couple miles away on a big screen.
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28 Sep 2009, 19:32 (Ref:2550002) | #4 | ||
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Part of racing is getting the most out of your equipment without destroying it.
If a teams equipment can't last the race they either need to restrain their drivers or work out a setup that achieves what they require. If they can't manage that aspect then they don't deserve the points in my view. |
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28 Sep 2009, 19:37 (Ref:2550008) | #5 | ||
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So they want 32mm discs instead of 28mm discs? Give'm 26mm discs I say. |
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28 Sep 2009, 19:38 (Ref:2550009) | #6 | |
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Competent drivers keep their brakes working all race.
Drivers in other series have it far harder (brakes wise) than F1 guys. |
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28 Sep 2009, 20:37 (Ref:2550051) | #7 | |
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Think it compounded by some tracks and the risks some of the teams take at closing down the ducts. Was Brawn also running Brembo discs like Red Bull and STR? It also could have just been a batch failure on a set of discs made special for the street circuit and something we may not see again.
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28 Sep 2009, 21:00 (Ref:2550064) | #8 | ||||
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Quote:
This an edited post I made on another thread about the same subject. Quote:
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28 Sep 2009, 21:12 (Ref:2550071) | #9 | |
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How do you know they won't just drop the duct size to cut down on aero drag and then end up eating up the disc anyway?
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28 Sep 2009, 21:50 (Ref:2550092) | #10 | |
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Is there a minimum duct size as well as max or can the teams cut it down as much as they want/dare?
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28 Sep 2009, 22:27 (Ref:2550116) | #11 | ||
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Iirc, this was the first race this year where we have seen a brake failure of some description, no need for a knee jerk reaction imo.
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28 Sep 2009, 22:34 (Ref:2550122) | #12 | |||
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Montréal is also supposed to be back on the calendar and that's another circuit that's hard on brakes, IIRC. |
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29 Sep 2009, 00:14 (Ref:2550168) | #13 | ||
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I think they should just make the race shorter tbh. It's too long compared to all the other races in terms of time
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29 Sep 2009, 06:13 (Ref:2550260) | #14 | ||
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Surely the brake failures are just another case of F1 equipment being designed to within the limit of sacrificial reliability in favour of performance.
Road cars have engines, brakes, gearboxes, tyres etc. that last for a lot longer than a F1 race. The fact that any component on a F1 car could fail is part of the sport's appeal. Should we have a tyre compound that will last 1,000 laps to prevent drivers slowing down due to degredation? Should we have engine designs that would last 40 races, preventing the need to preserve engine life? |
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29 Sep 2009, 06:24 (Ref:2550263) | #15 | ||
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It's not the first race this happens, at Montreal it happened every year.
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29 Sep 2009, 07:09 (Ref:2550280) | #16 | |||
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29 Sep 2009, 10:29 (Ref:2550383) | #17 | |||
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Surely we don't want to see shorter races, but drivers managing their car better. |
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29 Sep 2009, 10:44 (Ref:2550391) | #18 | |
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I think he was talking about Singapore specifically...even without a safety car it would take longer than the average GP. Not a reason to make it shorter though, the distance for a GP is 300 km or two hours, whatever comes first. If some take two hours - fine.
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29 Sep 2009, 10:58 (Ref:2550398) | #19 | |||
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The skill includes chosing equipment that will do the job and driving accordingly. So far as I know there is no rule that says you cannot have steel brakes if you prefer (correct me if I am wrong please). The engine and gearbox rules and other things are written to stop them building cars that totally self destruct in 2 hours, what you might call the Colin Chapman principle!? How did McLaren and others make the brakes last? If the cars are heavier next year they need to design and select materials accordingly in all areas. |
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29 Sep 2009, 11:06 (Ref:2550408) | #20 | |
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I was wondering if there was anything stopping the teams from using more than one 'disc' brake for each wheel? Just a thought.
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29 Sep 2009, 11:08 (Ref:2550410) | #21 | ||
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29 Sep 2009, 11:16 (Ref:2550418) | #22 | |
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There's also the possibilty that software will have to be used that enables the car to get to the finish on the amount of fuel it has is in its tank in 2010 (see MotoGP).This may mean that some cars go slightly lighter on fuel than others in the hope that they can build a lead in the beginning of the race and then defend that position later on.Useful on circuits where overtaking is difficult I would have thought.
This will also mean that brakes would get an easier time (as they would anyway) during the latter part of the race. |
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29 Sep 2009, 11:20 (Ref:2550421) | #23 | ||
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Even if the safety argument is taken, and brake size is increased, the teams will then choose a compound that will have a higher attrition rate and will only just last a race distance.
IF safety is a genuine concern with regards to brakes, then surely this is one area that a 'spec' part should be imposed on all teams. Could someone answer the following query:- If KERS recovers energy during braking, does this mean that more braking is done by the KERS system and less by the brakes? If so, another argument in favour of KERS? |
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29 Sep 2009, 11:38 (Ref:2550431) | #24 | ||
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29 Sep 2009, 11:39 (Ref:2550433) | #25 | |
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