|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
9 Jun 2014, 09:06 (Ref:3417402) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,676
|
combined grids - the way forward?
It seems that the Snetterton 3 hour/GTSCC combined grid was a successful marriage and there doesnt seem to be any grumbles about Carol combining with PA - so is this the future and will the entry fees benefit as a result of more full grids?
Sympathetically chosen it does seem to be able to provide to us what we want so my marker goes on it being a pragmatic solution to there being too many series |
||
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market |
9 Jun 2014, 11:50 (Ref:3417475) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,296
|
As Chris Sharples said in the latest HSCC magazine, if combining compatible grids at the bigger circuits keeps entry fees down then it's got to be a good idea. It's something we tried successfully in FF2000 recently to get a decent grid at Silverstone GP and most people thoroughly enjoyed racing against some new faces.
|
||
|
9 Jun 2014, 12:17 (Ref:3417490) | #3 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Yes, I agree, and the combined 3hr grid last weekend at Snetterton, plus the FF2000s at Silverstone Alan mentions are proof of how well it can work. I hesitate to be quite so enthusiastic about the combination of Carol's Pre '63 and Peter auto Pre '66 cars, as they normally run on different tyres. (L's versus ZZs.) I believe that Pre '63 cars have their own podium, though, so keeping it fair, or they can fit Avons and move to the other category....
MRL have combined their Gp1/2/A Touring Cars with other organisers and are doing so again for Silverstone Classic. I'm sure there are many other examples as well, and hopefully organisers will continue to work together for the good of us competitors, as well as themselves! |
||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
10 Jun 2014, 13:31 (Ref:3418135) | #4 | |
Racer
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 176
|
" seems that the Snetterton 3 hour/GTSCC combined grid was a successful marriage"
A great idea. But. We didn`t enter due to the need for L`s, presumably a requirement of the GTSCC organisers. I haven`t worked out the split between regular Guards and GTSCC entrants. |
|
|
10 Jun 2014, 14:12 (Ref:3418158) | #5 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,767
|
The FF1600's at Oulton the other week added an extra 'Invitation' grid which started 30 seconds behind the official race. i.e. for the Post 89 race a non championship Pre 90 race was added and for the Pre 90 race a Post 89 non championship race. It all worked quite well and certainly spiced up the racing but there were one or two grumbles when a non championship racer caused a Safety Car and it got a bit fraught when the quicker cars from race 2 caught up with the slower cars from race 1.
|
||
__________________
Nostagia ain't what it used to be! |
10 Jun 2014, 16:58 (Ref:3418227) | #6 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
10 Jun 2014, 20:41 (Ref:3418320) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 539
|
Something I've never really understood is why some series/championships limit tyres to Dunlop L section whilst others allow L and M. Were L sections only available in period or did regulations specify L in period in which case where and when were Ms introduced? I've seen some cars running Ls on one axle and Ms at the other end where regs allow you to run either.
Hopefully someone can clarify this seemingly arbitrary ruling? |
||
__________________
You ain't so big - you just tall, that's all. --------------------------------------- Dave Thompson |
10 Jun 2014, 21:03 (Ref:3418327) | #8 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
10 Jun 2014, 21:20 (Ref:3418334) | #9 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 539
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
You ain't so big - you just tall, that's all. --------------------------------------- Dave Thompson |
11 Jun 2014, 07:19 (Ref:3418438) | #10 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,718
|
It laregely depends on what fits on the car. for 13" 4.50 L's are too small and 5.50 too big . . . period tyres were 5.20 and they don't make them !
that goes for quite a few cars I can think of |
|
|
11 Jun 2014, 09:24 (Ref:3418475) | #11 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 452
|
My concern with combining grids revolves around tyres - as alluded to by Mike.
I ran with the original Classic K series with the CSCC a couple of years back. Because of declining grids at that time, one of the races was merged with their Swinging Sixties race where the cars were running 60 profile Yokohamas, with us on L section Dunlops. The difficulty was that many of the SS drivers seemed totally unaware of how the characteristics of historic cross plies influenced the manner in which the Dunlop shod cars needed to corner and as it was on the tight Mallory circuit, it was a very uncomfortable race. A few weeks ago, the Fiscar race (on L sections) was consolidated with the HSCC Historic Roadsports grid (Yokos). This worked a lot better, perhaps because the awareness was better, but I think mainly because of the much greater space available on the Silverstone GP circuit. We are due to repeat the experience at the HSCC Superprix so I hope that the Brands GP circuit delivers a similar experience. My personal preference is not to mix Dunlop historic tyres with modern low profile "sticky" road tyres. Mixing car types with compatible performance levels makes a lot of sense from an economic standpoint - but please pay attention to their comparative handling characteristics. |
||
__________________
Brian Arculus |
11 Jun 2014, 10:06 (Ref:3418483) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,699
|
There were combined grids for the Televised CTCRC meeting at Silverstone last week and where as the got 43 cars out the TV coverage and commentary was just concentrating on the front runners and hardly mentioned the pre-84's and didn't mention at all the Pre 2005's just the 93's, if grids are combined the commentators must be even handed and not just feature the first three. Apart from that logistically it has to happen!
|
||
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
11 Jun 2014, 10:28 (Ref:3418488) | #13 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 37
|
Hi all
I have to say that I really enjoyed the experience of a mixed grid at Silverstone .I had some great battles with the pre93 cars that I would not normally race against in pre 83. We did get a fair bit of TV coverage at the back as there was around 8 of us all charging for the same bit of road. Unfortunalty the car packed up but I still had a great weekend. I wonder what the grids for cadwell will be like. |
||
|
17 Jun 2014, 23:31 (Ref:3423271) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 606
|
The difficulty was that many of the SS drivers seemed totally unaware of how the characteristics of historic cross plies influenced the manner in which the Dunlop shod cars needed to corner and as it was on the tight Mallory circuit, it was a very uncomfortable race.
Good point well made. I cannot understand why some series allow tyres like Yokos.. Fabulous grip but it is not in keeping with the cars of the period and to be honest surely it puts more stress on the cars which were designed to slide rather than grip , in period? |
||
__________________
I am surpised anything this much fun is firstly still legal and secondly is not taxable |
18 Jun 2014, 07:51 (Ref:3423325) | #15 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
18 Jun 2014, 08:29 (Ref:3423332) | #16 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 606
|
You may well be right - however the replacement of suspension bits caused by increased wear and tear due to more grip/stress must also be a factor
|
||
__________________
I am surpised anything this much fun is firstly still legal and secondly is not taxable |
18 Jun 2014, 09:47 (Ref:3423350) | #17 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
|
Quote:
Inevitably, the governing body reversed their decision and allowed the modern sticky radials back in and the grids flourished again. This is now one of the most popular categories in Australia, has been for years. |
|||
|
18 Jun 2014, 13:07 (Ref:3423421) | #18 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,699
|
Surely the old Touring Cars including Group 1 ran on slicks so the argument that List 1b tyres puts more strain on components doesn't really stack up.
|
||
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
18 Jun 2014, 20:10 (Ref:3423563) | #19 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 606
|
Different era Al. I'm talking about 50's and 60's. However it's irrelevant to a degree because the whole point is that mixed grids on different rubber will create greatly different speeds between cars of the same type which in turn promotes incidents.
|
||
__________________
I am surpised anything this much fun is firstly still legal and secondly is not taxable |
19 Jun 2014, 10:57 (Ref:3423734) | #20 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 13,226
|
Absolutely, Nick. As Brian pointed out with his running in two mixed grids recently it does create issues. I think combined grids need to be carefully selected and close attention paid to levels of performance and grip of the two groups. I'm not a fan, frankly, although there will be occasions when running on GP circuits at Silverstone and Brands require big grids and then it becomes an obvious solution to combine them.
As for old cars running on modern slicks, I cannot understand it. Seems to defeat the point of historic racing. The driver is not remotely experiencing the car as it should be felt nor the spectator seeing it move around as it should. As has been stated above the higher grip levels and cornering speeds place extra stress on other components that were never designed to accept them. If you want to corner faster get a modern car. |
||
|
19 Jun 2014, 12:10 (Ref:3423762) | #21 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,699
|
I had a coming together recently in a combined race, probably mostly my fault but the fact was the much more modern, lighter car equipped with anti lock brakes was able to retake me into the chicane after I had got past him down the straight, unfortunately I had a major brake lock up and couldn't haul the old girl up and was having to go straight on through the chicane but unfortunately the lighter car nipped in front and I T-Boned him.
|
||
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
19 Jun 2014, 17:32 (Ref:3423895) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 515
|
If you want to corner faster get a modern car.
Couldn't agree more A big part of the fun for me is driving on Dunlop CR65's |
||
__________________
"Hot rods" rule. |
21 Jun 2014, 10:40 (Ref:3424526) | #23 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 241
|
Agree with everything that has been said about mixed grids with some on historic and others on modern tyres but there is another solution.....reduce the race entry costs and the grid size will increase
I had a very good laugh to myself recently when I found that my entry fee was 40% of some others for racing at the same meeting on the same day on the same track - albeit with a bigger grid. I see CSCC have almost 70 at Spa next weekend. Maybe they have understood their market better than others. |
||
|
22 Jun 2014, 06:19 (Ref:3424814) | #24 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,020
|
|||
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy |
25 Jun 2014, 13:59 (Ref:3426304) | #25 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 355
|
Quote:
As someone that races an early 70's Gp2(esque) car on modern rubber, I personally kept the wheel width down to save wear and tear on suspension gearbox etc. and to keep tyre costs down. I should be on 13 x 9 inch slicks, not my current 13 x 6 yokos. Not really sure what else I could run on anyway. Having also raced moderns believe me it still feels like a 40 yr old car. And as for all the supposed accidents mixing tyres can bring? Perhaps a little less of a do or die, win at all costs mentality is needed? Or maybe im getting old..... |
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Combined Car and Driver Weight | Jon Davis | Club Level Single Seaters | 43 | 22 Mar 2010 02:45 |
Motegi endurance course/combined ring. | Quintin03 | My Track Designs | 20 | 14 Aug 2009 13:52 |
Junior Formulae Combined | Nevsky | National & International Single Seaters | 4 | 20 Jun 2009 22:51 |
Yet Another Combined Championship (American Sportscar) | Danske | Sportscar & GT Racing | 6 | 8 May 2008 18:05 |
Combined Championship Points From Across the 2 Series | BootsOntheSide | ChampCar World Series | 11 | 15 Jun 2003 17:49 |