Pre 87 Sierra Cosworth in Rallycross

[jcrally]

Please can I have some help in identifying any pre 1987 Sierra Cosworths used in Rallycross.

I know they were used extensively as an RS500 in 1988 + but I need info on any early ones if possible

Look forward to your comments

Regards

John

[BertMk2]

I started watching rallycross after most of the Sierras had vanished, in fact I think the only one I saw was Phil Collards (when he made the switch from Minicross?). I'm sure there will be plenty of others who remember more though.....

[jcrally]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I started watching rallycross after most of the Sierras had vanished, in fact I think the only one I saw was Phil Collards (when he made the switch from Minicross?). I'm sure there will be plenty of others who remember more though.....

Thanks I hope others can help, as I said above they were the car to have as an RS 500

[schanche]

Jos Sterkens had the karcher Sierra Xr4i/Merkur in 87 Erc I think it was also called? And Eamon Mateson ? In 88, Pre 87 not sure Escort RS Turbos in Europe in 86 then the Sierras appeared in 87 in erc

[GOLDFINGER]

wasnt there a guy who used to tow one behind a Roller his name escapes me at the moment

[schanche]

Originally Posted by GOLDFINGER

wasnt there a guy who used to tow one behind a Roller his name escapes me at the moment

Ron Hudson both him and Trevor were present at the 87 GP

[KA]

I didn't really start watching rallycross until '89, by which time most of the Cosworths had become RS500s- Although moving on a couple of years to the early 90's, didn't Pat Doran start out with a Cosworth, rather than an RS500 (IIRC it was his Group A rallycar?) before he got his RS200?

[schanche]

Your right about I think, For the Croft internations Pat reworked the Rally spec Sierra to join the Gb Team. In the 87 Prog Trevors was down as Sierra Cosworth and Ron was down RS Cosworth

[rx-guru]

Pre 87 can only mean 1986, the first production year of the Sierra Cosworth... Correct?

[chunder]

Mathesons never was a cosworth as far as I know. But Ron, Trevor and smoggy were initially I guess. I think a few guys in France maybe ran more basic cars, Meier etc.
collard went ok actually, but a lot of cosworth gear and engines would have been used in the new cars as engines, they would slot straight in I guess to most.
Towards the end of touring car the Aussies were ruling the roost in power, and the rally cross guys were getting close, 600hp was rumoured from the carlssons motors and you had guys like drury, Hoyle page too.

[rx-guru]

As a matter of fact the first Sierra Cossies were built/sold by Ford in the summer of 1986. So looking for pre 1987 Cossies in Rallycross makes no sense to me. In 1986 people were racing the Ford Escort RS Turbo. The first Sierra Cossies arrived in 1987, the first RS500 Cossies in 1988.

[jcrally]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

As a matter of fact the first Sierra Cossies were built/sold by Ford in the summer of 1986. So looking for pre 1987 Cossies in Rallycross makes no sense to me. In 1986 people were racing the Ford Escort RS Turbo. The first Sierra Cossies arrived in 1987, the first RS500 Cossies in 1988.

Hi

Thanks for you responce and all of the others so far. I do have a reason for my original question that being a would like to join the Retro Series if possible.

I have a spare 3dr shell as I used one in rallying a few years ago, I just thought it would make good use of it and hope people would enjoy seeing one out again.

Shirley is working with me hence this post to try and get some info on any early cars. There isnt any doubt the car was used in rallying , but over 87/88 the class structure went all over the place, Gp 'B', Gp 'A', Gp 'N', then in rallycross Div 1/2 etc

Just trying to put a differnt car out , I have given a RS Turbo some thought and that would be good but I dont have that shell

Anyway we will have to wait and who knows what will happen

Regards

John

[rx-guru]

I actually don't understand the "pre 1987" rule for Retro. If it means the cars have to be seen in Rallycross at least in 1986 even some of the Group B machinery would not match that rule. Only the Ford RS200 (Rennison quite early in 1986; Schanche, Holm, Nilsson and Wiklund only during the British Rallycross GP on December 6 and 7 1986) and the MG Metro 6R4 (Will Gollop, British RX GP 1986) would be legal. No S1, no S4, no 205 T16.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

I actually don't understand the "pre 1987" rule for Retro. If it means the cars have to be seen in Rallycross at least in 1986 even some of the Group B machinery would not match that rule. Only the Ford RS200 (Rennison quite early in 1986; Schanche, Holm, Nilsson and Wiklund only during the British Rallycross GP on December 6 and 7 1986) and the MG Metro 6R4 (Will Gollop, British RX GP 1986) would be legal. No S1, no S4, no 205 T16.

I'm not sure it makes any sense actually - its basically framed around cars that are already competing or known to be available. It might need looking at again.

Also, were there many Intergrale HFs around in rallycross in 1986? (Kalinecki's car has made it through.)

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Also, were there many Intergrale HFs around in rallycross in 1986? (Kalinecki's car has made it through.)

The sale of the Lancia Delta HF 4WD started in autumn 1986, I had one myself. The first Lancia Delta HF integrale (with 8 valve engine then) was shown at the 1987 IAA in Germany. So why did they do that? The first Lancia Delta in Rallycross I remember was the HF Turbo of Frenchman Paul Châteaux in 1986, but that was a 2WD car.

[jcrally]

The 3dr Cosworth was discused for the pre 87 RAC championship but for various reasons it doesnt seem to have got the green light

If I you ignore my 3dr question and I find an early 80's car that never competed in rallycross but did in rallying would that be elligible ? Or do you have to choose a car that competed in the discipline you want to run in ?

If a car gets homologated into motorsport surely it could run in any category ( within reason that is )

I keep an eye on the Historic rallying scene and there is an iteresting thread on capris, there are so many people who want to knock the thought but dont we want as many cars out as we can ?

[rx-guru]

So far I was always asked about pre 1987 cars in Rallycross. Therefore I think they want cars that competed in Rallycross (somewhere in Europe) rather than in other motorsports.

[JSRacing]

They have just thrown out a 205, after an entry was accepted for Croft at weekend. Now a 205 gti was used for a 1986 ERC race. I Like the Retro series a lot but keep seeing things like this .... perhaps the rules need clarifying more.

[rx-guru]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ight=205+retro

The 205 was already discussed early this year.

[JSRacing]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ight=205+retro

The 205 was already discussed early this year.

Exactly .... but apparently it was given permission before entry. Not sure of the exact reasons though.

[rx-guru]

Maybe no Peugeot engine or block...?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by jcrally

If I you ignore my 3dr question and I find an early 80's car that never competed in rallycross but did in rallying would that be elligible ? Or do you have to choose a car that competed in the discipline you want to run in ?

If a car gets homologated into motorsport surely it could run in any category ( within reason that is )

There is a class for historic rally cars which means next year - in theory - any car homologated before 1987 and of an appropriate production date will be eligible.

In practice retro rallycross is being run as a private club so its up to them to decide if you can race or not. I can see what the Gibsons are trying to do but I'm not sure its the best way to go. For me, if you're an MSA series on an MSA track you should have clearly defined rules and let anyone enter who has a legal car.

Its not like we have an excessive number of competitors in British rallycross...

[chunder]

The Lancis being used in retro right now is pretty far removed from any car ever used in rallycross really.

Not many integrals were ever used to great effect in rallycross of any era, and that one is certainly very powerful, very trick.

Quite why its there I don't know, when you cant run a 205gti, a R5 with a 16000 and maybe now are struggling with a Cosworth!

But as someone said earlier, grids are full in rallycross now aren't they?

Jesus Christ this beggars belief!

[jcrally]

Thanks for all your comments it appears my original question has been answered.

It will be difficult to structure the retro series so I will be advised by the organisers, if it cant run then so be it and I will try and sort out something else.

perhaps a Series 1 turbo ???

[Pinto]

I usually just browse on this forum but knowing my father use to own Mathersons sierra cosworth I thought why shouldn't a car like that run in retro rallycross as it more retro than whats running at the moment. It was a cosworth shell with cosworth GAA engine but later had YB cosworth put in as GAA needed rebuild and engine parts weren't available then. It was 4 wheel drive as well.