[DTM] Finale - Hockenheim (GER), 25/26 October 2008

[JMeissner]

The final race of 2008 is here, Hockenheim is the place as usual.

Who will take the title? Audi or Mercedes? Germany or Great Britain?

Outgoing champion Ekström took the pole:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2858

Title fighters right behind him...

[JMeissner]

Scheider changes engine:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2860

[mattt]

my lead is already down to 6 pts

but fortunately Schneider was 5th so that hasn't changed it

[SGarage]

Is there any chance to watch the race online?

[Aslak Vind]

Well, at least there is livetiming at DTM.com. As well as commentary, I hope that can satisfy you?

Scheider had a nasty fly on his flying lap, it was obvious to see that Wollfgang Ullrich was angry afterwards. A stupid mistake, from a driver who doesnt make many of these.

But it costed him pole..

Thanks for the update on Scheiders enginechange, Johan!

[JMeissner]

All the facts on Di Resta vs Scheider:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2859

[Ellmau]

Originally Posted by SGarage

Is there any chance to watch the race online?

http://www.rtl.nl/(vm=/sport/rtl_gp/...rtlgp/insc.xml

Maybe that it will work for people outside The Netherlands as well.

[JMeissner]

"only available for dutch viewer"

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by SGarage

Is there any chance to watch the race online?

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?ma...51&part=sports

I don't know if this works.

BTW Is there no live stream on www.dtm.tv?

[Ellmau]

perhaps this one: http://www.dtm.tv/Index/LiveEvent

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Controversy! Shock and horror! Nice to see everyone return to their usual level now at the last race. I've kind of missed the dirty tactics and team orders this season.

[JMeissner]

Big congrats to Timo Scheider!

[SGarage]

Thanks to everybody

[Ellmau]

Congrats to Scheider for winning another boring race

[JMeissner]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2866

[Aslak Vind]

Eki did what was expected of him, cutting off Paul di Resta, and afterwards fight as much as he could, without to many penalties. So he did, very well.

A bit muffed by the lack speed of the other Audi factorycars, they were not really in the same race as Timo and Paul. Very well done by Paul, but Timo had the best strategy, and the best speed. Paul overdrove his car in the beginning of the last stint, loosing the speed in the last part of the race, due to strategy.

A great salute to Timo Scheider for the championship, aned a farewell salute to Bernd Schneider for 14 good years, 5 championships and lots of good racing!

The ARD guys mentioned, that Gary Paffett was a dead give away to the 2009 spot in HWA. I am not so sure?

Also, I have a feeling that we will lose a couple of Mercedes jahreswagen drivers, they have been very unimpressive. Sadly the biggest letdown is Ralf Schumacher, which has always been a joke behind a wheel, but I am afraid he will keep wasting our time next year as well, as will Matthias Lauda and Maro Engel..

There are better alternatives, Hülkenberg for example..

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Ellmau

Congrats to Scheider for winning another boring race

Typical TV racing day today. I watched DTM and after that the re-airing of WTCC. DTM sucked because it was really boring, the only question was, if Scheider would make a mistake or not.
But WTCC was somwehow ruined for me, because the cars looked so ridiculously slow compared to DTM. Sure the rain didn't help and neither did me already knowing the results, but I normally find WTCC quite enjoyable. This time, all the overtaking did nothing for me...

[Andy77]

Maybe you should have got up early then

[Aslak Vind]

I am aolso, as mentioned earlier, not completely sure that we will see Tom Kristensen in the DTM anno 2009. He admits to having an immense headache from time to time after his crash, however he is still figthing for every single point. He admits to backing off, in the startcrash in Spitzkehre, remembering last time things went wrong here. Who can blame him.

It was his 50th DTM race, and he mentions that if he hadnt missed the 28 points from the three races; a missed start at Oschersleben from second place, and the teams wrong tiregamble at Nürburgring and Bugatti, then he would have been second ind the championship. However, both TK and we know, thats racing!

In the latter of the 2008 season, he helped timo with setups, testing them in training. But will we see him in 2009...?

[Robbe]

It will be interesting if Mercedes really gives the 4th new car to Paffett...

Obviously, looking at the other "Jahreswagen" drivers and at his DTM history, he's the one who deserves it.

It probably depends on Di Resta. If he changes to GP2 (or F1 test drive), they can give Paffett a new car and enter a german driver in the 4th car.
But if Di Resta stays in DTM, will Mercedes really have 3 brits and no german driver in the top cars?

Problem is, Engel is not experienced enough and Ralf is not good enough. Still I fear he will be in a new car next year, for publicity reasons.

[FIRE]

A very boring race.

Driver lineup next season (2009 cars):
Audi
Scheider
Ekstrom
Tomczyk
Premat

Mercedes
Spengler
Green
Paffet (I assume Di Resta will move to GP2, otherwise he will get this car)
German driver, but who?

Ammermuller?
Vietoris?

[Ola]

Big congratulations to Timo Scheider who I think has looked like a champion all year, and he took the title in the best possible fashion.

Although I wouldn't have thought about di Resta as anything else as a worthy champion would he have taken it. He's had two very impressive years in DTM. If he is to do F1, he will probably have to leave DTM next year though.

I thought it was kinda funny to see Mattias Ekström, he sure took the role as a teamplayer seriously And I don't think any of the Mercedes drivers would have done it so much different if they would have been in this situation.

Also great tactics by Audi to get Mattias out between Timo and di Resta after his first pit stop.

I think either Ralf Schumacher or Nico Hülkenberg will have a good chance to get a brand new Mercedes. But I have doubts bout whether Hülkenberg will go down the DTM-route, I think they are firmly fixed on F1 which means doing GP2 instead.

Jamie Green, Paul di Resta (if he doesn't do GP2), Ralf Schumacher and Gary Paffett (if he finally admits the F1-dreams are over) will be the drivers in brand new Mercedes cars. But that leaves Bruno Spengler out .... damn .... I don't know.

Having read that Tom Kristensen still has headache now and then after his crash last year I wouldn't be surprised if he would stop in DTM and instead focusing on Le Mans - handing his car over to Alexandre Premat.

[Aslak Vind]

If Ralf Schumacher gets a 2009 car, it is all down to marketing. He has been a moving chicane all year, only fighting Maro Engels who is admitable very unexperienced, and should not have entered the DTM so early.

The only reason why Gary Paffet should get a F1 seat, should be if Force India signs the engineering deal with McLaren. You are right, it is over for him, he didnt have the speed, plain and simple.

Paul di Resta should stay in the DTM for another year, however I must say that Lewis Hamilton is lacking a teammate, who is as fast as he is. Paul should in my book be able to be upthere with him, but he should mature through another year in the DTM, claim the 2009 title and move on.

Basically I think Nico Hülkenberg will go where Mercedes asks him to go, the only reason it shouldent be so, is all down to Willy Weber. Hülkenberg should be in a formulacar, however Paul has shown the way to go when entering the DTM from F3 Euro.

The only problem is, that the driving style is far less aggressive, and both Green and other debutants had a hard time learning that.

TK has asked Audi to get to test the new diesel Le Mans car, coming out later this year. And given his credentials, he should get to do that. Tom is still a match for everyone in the DTM allthough 41 years old now.

But it seems that it comes with a prize..

[JMeissner]

Word fight between Ekström and di Resta:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2867

"Mercedes are sore losers!", said Ekström.

[Robbe]

Hülkenberg will not go to DTM, no way.

He's Williams F1 test driver, not a Mercedes driver. He only had the Mercedes engine in F3 ES, simply because his team ran with Mercedes engines. Next year he will run with a Renault engine... in GP2, where he should be.


Paul di Resta might prove me wrong, but until now DTM has proven to be the end of F1 dreams for young drivers.

Green had beaten Rosberg (and Kubica) in F3 ES in 2004 and won the championship, but then he was never in frame for F1 teams. Who knows where he might be now if he had entered GP2 in 2005?

Paffett has won German F3 and the DTM championship, nevertheless he never made it in F1 testing and is back in DTM in a worse car.

Which only leaves Christian Albers, who actually made it to F1, but look where he is now... back in DTM in a 2-year-old car! (I hope he will be Audi worksdriver next year, he deserves better).

I do not mean the talent gets wasted in DTM. In some years Paffett and Green might be known and respected as touringcar-experts, similar to Rydell, Priaulx, Giovanardi etc. That's by far better than being a F1 failure. Nevertheless, it will be the end of all F1 dreams.

So if you want to be a F1 driver, which leads us back to Hülkenberg, go and drive GP2 in a top team (oh, and don't take as many years as Pantano).

New drivers for 2009:
I hope Rene Rast (Porsche Carrera champ) gets a cockpit, but it's rather Audi "jahreswagen" than Mercedes for him, looking at his VW racing history. Or maybe Eduardo Mortara?