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12 Oct 2010, 07:51 (Ref:2776048) | #1 | ||
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HSCC - The Martini Trophy - The NEW 1970s 2-litre Sports Prototype Racing car Series!
I'm rather excited about this, and even had a bit of minor input. I will start a thread about it soon, but John, I urge you passionately to hold onto 'Chocolate Drop' as it is absolutely the sort of car that the new series is made for.
(I've added 'The Martini Trophy' to the thread title following the recent announcement - JT - Jan 2011) Last edited by John Turner; 16 Jan 2011 at 12:26. Reason: Revised Title |
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12 Oct 2010, 07:59 (Ref:2776049) | #2 | ||
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All for it John, the only sicking point I see is with the majority of events being in Europe, and those who do not have the time to allow for travel are excluded. Yes plenty of racing in the UK so buy a car to comply with UK events, and in the case I put forward that is exactly what happend, on the the premise a certain in period engine is excluded.
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12 Oct 2010, 08:19 (Ref:2776050) | #3 | ||
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A lot will be dependant on regs.
HSCC,Is it a Orwell free for all or real cars. Do 210's have those Richardson ally engines,Whenever were they used in period.They are not welcome in CER from now. Driving standards are being sorted in CER but this new idea of the transgressor paying half rebuild costs of the bashed are unenforceable. Correct brakes and stuff. The cars are quick enough without that development word. We will do the HSCC series with B8,B26 and Mr Birchs GT160 if the regs are correct.If not we take toys and do CER. HSCC is ,with Peter Auto, our preferred race series organiser .CER gives us options with 50/60's Sports GT jobs. With Pre War vanishing that is no longer a reason to do any meeting.Legends cannot get any results correct in our bit so give up with them. Needs another thread as we are going off topic.Leave Guards as it is. |
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john ruston |
12 Oct 2010, 08:20 (Ref:2776051) | #4 | ||
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Yes, p261BRM, you could argue that Historic racing is too successful with too many meetings in UK let alone across the rest of Europe. I imagine it's becoming a nightmare for those who specialise in car preparation and support. However, there are still plenty of historic avenues to explore, so I don't see it getting easier any time soon.
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12 Oct 2010, 09:46 (Ref:2776052) | #5 | |||
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Quote:
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12 Oct 2010, 09:55 (Ref:2776053) | #6 | ||
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this has been in the press - its a new series for 2 litre 70's sports racers - should be awesome. As has been said early maybe the B8's will gravitate to that series or do both and have two races at a meeting!
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12 Oct 2010, 10:52 (Ref:2776054) | #7 | ||
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As for Cholocate Drop .Had two offers and now deciding as still thinking of concentrating on rallies.Gareth will be driving alternative car in CER2/HSCC if Choc Drop goes but it is not mine.Notice that HMRN called Choc Drop the most famous Chevron.Don't know where they got that from!Price went up at that point.
May keep B8.Its been rearranged slightly at rear end due to a Black Country supertstar trying to mount it at Ricard. |
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john ruston |
15 Oct 2010, 16:26 (Ref:2776057) | #8 | |||
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To which alloy engines is Mr Ruston refering? BD series were always alloy block. |
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16 Oct 2010, 06:31 (Ref:2776058) | #9 | |
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Just as a point of interest. The new HSCCC 2 Litre sports car series will be for OPEN cars only. So no B8s etc.
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16 Oct 2010, 08:11 (Ref:2776059) | #10 | ||
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To which alloy engines is Mr Ruston refering?
BD series were always alloy block.[/QUOTE] The original BDA engine was iron block. The derivative BDE engine was also iron block.The original BDG 2 litre engines were also iron block with liners. The alloy block came later, probably mid 70s rather than the late 60s of the first BDA engines. |
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16 Oct 2010, 08:12 (Ref:2776060) | #11 | ||
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16 Oct 2010, 09:50 (Ref:2776061) | #12 | ||
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Well, I've argued that since the Guards series allows up to and including the B8, and the new series the B19 onwards, and that, in effect, the latter is more or less a B16 with the roof cut off, the B16 should be in. I really don't understand why the prettiest Chevron should be stuck in no-mans land between the two series, and I believe, frankly, that it will, quite correctly, be allowed into the new series. If you use the 1971 Martini International Trophy race as one of the templates for this series, it had half a dozen B16s (in fact it also had B8s as well) in that race alongside the B19s and T210/212s so if it doesn't get included, I will be moaning consistently about its exclusion on here!
Last edited by John Turner; 17 Oct 2010 at 09:23. |
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16 Oct 2010, 10:15 (Ref:2776062) | #13 | ||
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The 210's racing as 1970 cars with ally blocks are wrong.
They get a 50 Kilo advantage in some series using an engine that did not exist. Am I missing something. The French banning them in CER 1 have got something correct. These ally engines are used in WSM ,the Masters series and it is not historically correct.If you have these mid 70's engines why not mid 70's cars Am I missing something or is it one of those things when enough supposedly important people say something happen it obviously did,I don't think so! |
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16 Oct 2010, 11:48 (Ref:2776063) | #14 | ||
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Well, I may have misunderstood the question, John, but mid 70's cars are allowed in this series which is primarily for 2 litre Gp 6 cars built between 1970 and the end of 1978 (although I will have to check the exact dates). I cannot comment on the engines as it is not an area I'm really familiar with.
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16 Oct 2010, 14:13 (Ref:2776064) | #15 | |||
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Without the 'loft' again to confirm, first alloy block BDA 1972 and opened up to 1800cc. First BDG fitted to B21/23 end 1972 early 73 and alloy block. As the new series is dated to1976 do not see a problem with these engines, I have a suspicion the 'finger' is being pointed in the direction of some examples of FVC, and rightly so. Have to agree with Mr. Turner again re the B16, I am aware it's in period international competion life was cut a little short but to exclude what was/is Dekka's most handsome car is perhaps a little shortsighted. |
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16 Oct 2010, 20:52 (Ref:2776065) | #16 | |
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Try the search jobby - 'BDA What does it stand for' It will keep you amused for hours. It did me, anyway!
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16 Oct 2010, 20:58 (Ref:2776066) | #17 | ||
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600 kilo weight min on all 2 litre cars?
Would that solve problem. |
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16 Oct 2010, 21:40 (Ref:2776067) | #18 | |||
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Similarly MAE was Modified Anglia Engine and SCA was Single Cam Anglia. |
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16 Oct 2010, 21:43 (Ref:2776068) | #19 | ||
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And without wanting to be too anoraky (?) FVA stood for Four Valve Anglia.
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16 Oct 2010, 22:37 (Ref:2776069) | #20 | ||
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16 Oct 2010, 23:10 (Ref:2776070) | #21 | ||
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Always thought BDA stood for "Belt Drive A Series".
Shows what I know. |
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17 Oct 2010, 07:35 (Ref:2776071) | #22 | |
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As a 'best guess', the MAE and FVA could have originally been 'Anglia' but it would appear that as Cosworth continued the development they became FVB FVC, BDB,C,D,E etc.
I think the Alloy block came out about 1973? |
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17 Oct 2010, 07:49 (Ref:2776072) | #23 | ||
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I do agree about the B16's would be a shame to not allow them (and B8's) into the new series.
I love B8's but out of interest did they have a very short shelf life in period at International level? How long was it before they were superceded by B16 and others? I get the impression Guards are the only place they can win races and then only as an invitee, which if true and at 250k makes them quite indulgent |
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17 Oct 2010, 07:49 (Ref:2776073) | #24 | ||
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600Kilos for wing cars and 550 for non wing cars in CER.Seemed to be lots of 8,16 and 19's in CER last week.
Plus 210 and stuff. What is a CER special? CER ban ally blocks in non wing cars. |
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17 Oct 2010, 07:54 (Ref:2776074) | #25 | |
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If I was a bit more computer literate I could post this in a less agricultural fashion. But there you go. I probably wouldn't have the looks then
Twin Cam, Four Valve BDA Family Type Year Size Output Description BDA 1969 1601cc 120 Bhp. Belt Drive layout similar to FVA on taller Kent block BDB 1970 1700cc 200 Bhp. Escort RS1600 rally engine, sold as kits BDC 1970 1700cc 230 Bhp. Injected BDB for Group 2 Escort RS1600, also kits BDD 1971 1600cc 200 Bhp. Definitive Formula Atlantic Motor, also kits BDE 1972 1790cc 245 Bhp. Formula 2 first stretch to 2 litre rules, bigger bore, injection BDF 1972 1927cc 270 Bhp. Formula 2 next stretch, liners brazed in to cast iron block, very successful BDG 1973 1975cc 275 Bhp. Formula 2 and rally, development of BDF, later with aluminum block BDH 1973 1300cc 190 Bhp. Group 2 Sports cars, shorter stroke on shorter block BDJ 1974 1098cc 150 Bhp. Formula C, short stroke version for SCCA BDK none -- -- reseved for forgotten project BDL ? ? ? experimental turbo BDM 1975 1599cc 225 Bhp. Formula Atlantic, big valve, injected BDD BDN 1977 1600cc 210 Bhp. Formula Atlantic, Canadian Atlantic sealed motors this year only, sold as kits BDO none -- -- not allocated BDP 1984 1975cc 245 Bhp. Sprint car, aluminum block, BDG bore/stroke, injected, methanol BDQ none -- -- not allocated BDR 1983 1601cc 120 Bhp. BDA kits for Caterham Super Sevens, also 1.7 litre and 150, 170 Bhp. BDT 1981 1778cc 200 Bhp. RS1700T turbo, aluminum block, kits for JQF " 1981 1803cc 250 Bhp. RS200 BDT units redesigned, rebuilt, and enlarged BDT-E 1986 2137cc 500 Bhp. Evolution BDT by Brian Hart, Ltd. |
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