Is it possible to make it big in Australian Motorsport on talent alone?

[Bugger All]

Hey guys this is something I have been wondering for a while.

Would it be possible to be successful at the top levels of Australian Motorsport on raw talent and passion alone? I mean a young guy who really wants to do it, lives and breathes it and has a fair amount of natural talent but who does not have family money or connections? Just comes form a middle class family?

I remember putting every bit of my life as a teenager into wanting to be a military pilot and in the end I did make it and I loved every bit of it but there was the Aust gov to pay the bills if I had to pay for it myself I would have never had a chance to fly anything much!!

So what are the chances of the next Jamie or Craig coming from the back blocks and making it on natural ability, personality and dedication?

[peckstar]

is that what Frosty has done?

[Peat]

Not a chance.

No modest middle class family could afford to put a child through a season of national karting, let alone the next steps.

And if they can, its suffice to say they are not middle class.

[peckstar]

jason brights family are modest middle class people. He has made it big

[raymond]

Short answer...No

While there are many more drivers than seats available, money will always be part of the equation. Maybe if the middle-class family had "connections" it would be a bit easier?

[rik]

Originally Posted by Bugger All

So what are the chances of the next Jamie or Craig coming from the back blocks and making it on natural ability, personality and dedication?

Yes, of course it's possible... the Gov saw enough potential to back you into flight training.

So the Motorsport up and comer will need someone to spot their talent and back them, like a wealthy person/company rather the the Gov.

Also remember guys like Ingall, Murphy, etc would have been benched long ago if they didn't have strong support from sponsors.

[Razor]

I tried for many years to get into professional motorsport (I was offered test days and whatnot) but the only reason that stopped me was a lack of money. (Even though I come from a family that weren't doing too badly)

So to answer your question: No.

[Woolley]

You can take the word 'Australian out of the title' and ask the same question anywhere.

If you can use that talent to secure a backer early on, possibly, although you need enough money to get started in the first place and get that backer. Otherwise you need good connections or significant family money.

If only sponsors would use talent as a basis for who to give their money to instead of marketability. Reminds me of a quote from an interior designer: "If only my clients with money had taste and my clients with taste had money."

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

jason brights family are modest middle class people. He has made it big

Jason Bright got his break in 1997

The world is very different in 2012

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by one five five

Jason Bright got his break in 1997

The world is very different in 2012

What was his big break? His family would have spent a lot of money getting to that point. Sorry it cant be done, you need some money to get noticed.

[Umai Naa]

He had some backers at the time, which no doubt, helped grease the wheels a bit.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Jason Bright got his break in 1997

The world is very different in 2012

Thats right, the world is different, there are more teams out there now that are not owner drivers, therefore more opportunities for people with skill.

We also have the shannons supercar showdown giving kids a chance to show there stuff.(if you are the lucky ones getting selected)

but i would also say that talent is not enough, you need to be markatable and present yourself well

Once upon a time it was often little to do with driving talent and more to do with engineering talent that got you to the top.

Now the engineers are building the cars and the drivers are driving them

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Now the engineers are building the cars and the drivers are driving them

Whats wrong with drivers have enginerring and mechanical knowledge / empathy?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Whats wrong with drivers have enginerring and mechanical knowledge / empathy?

Nothing!

I didnt say there was

I wouldnt think there are many people that are awesome engineers and awesome drivers though.

More likely they are one or the other

[Average Punter]

Originally Posted by Racenut

What was his big break? His family would have spent a lot of money getting to that point. Sorry it cant be done, you need some money to get noticed.

Notso may have had some backing into American Formula Ford if I recall.
Yellow Pages?

[Henry]

Motor racing has been the playground of the well-monied since it was discovered/invented. Of course, until Henry Ford came up with the idea that automobiles should be accessible transport for the general population, they were a rare, expensive and exotic thing anyway.

At the time that Jason Bright was hunting for his big break, there was much mention of the amount of money his parents poured into his career ... his HRT drive was (according to net scuttlebutt of the time) as much about a steady income to cover off on the monies borrowed for the Indy Lights campaign as anything else. There was of course the Skilled money which followed him about for a long time too.

Yellow Page backed Webber for a long time, and David Campese was a believer who kicked the tin too IIRC

Whincup bought a season at 888.

Peter McLeod was drafted into HDT in 1987 on the basis that he could contribute some Commodore spares to The Cause - wheels etc ...

Steve Masterton ran credible teams and campaigns based on the family business seeing a great advertising opportunity in a lucrative time in their industry.

Look into the history of so many legends, and somewhere there will be either a story of a benefactor, or a business channelling money into it, or similar. There were so many car salesmen who funnelled money into it, or mechanics who ran an amateur career out of the workshop, many times on the profits of the business (or more) ... the Geoghegans, Bob Jane, Norm Beechey for starters.

So many people benefitted from other people's love of motorsport; Laurie O'Neill, Dean Wills, Alec Mildren, Max McLeod, Bryan Byrt, Colin Giltrap were all people whose love of motor racing prompted them to spend either their own money, or their business' money on seeing somebody do amazing things with their car or backing ... and so many who have gone unidentified largely...

Garrie Cooper built a successful business around the idea that for him to ever fulfil dreams of racing cars, he was going to have to build one for himself.

Of course, these days, most of the support comes in the form of personal sponsorship - eg James Moffat and Norton. I recall a conversation from a number of years ago with a team manager, where Moff's name came up, and at that stage the difference between him getting a gig with that team in the Dev Series and not was personal sponsorship that JM couldn't get together. It kept him out of that series for another couple of years too.

Many of the people who may well become the greatest in motor racing on the basis of talent - be it drivers, or team managers or engineers - will seek a career elsewhere for better pay and working conditions.

There are many who were earmarked as people to watch, but never cracked it, mainly on the basis of money ... Neil Cunningham springs to mind ... Garry Wilmington was never a bad steerer, but everything was done on the sniff of an oily rag (wasn't his EB a pair of half-cuts from a cab and something else, with bits from his past two or three cars thrown into it? Centre-lock front wheels and 5-stud rears?) ...

Dick Johnson, who had a number of lucky breaks - some of which didn't unfold all the way ... Zupp's backing, Byrt Ford backing - and whose luck break came on the basis of a big advertising punt by a mate and his growing and dynamic business, and a clever look at the XD Falcon homologation, and of course a freak accident when he was looking good at a time when Ford fans had nothing to capture their hearts and minds (one wonders whether an actual win that day would've set Dick up as well as The Rock did).

It is now, as always, about money. And of course with V8 Supercars now absorbing most of the available money, there's not much to foster the development of any other category, or provide a truly nurturing or accessible environment for capable amateurs to enjoy anywhere near the level of motorsport that they once could ... remembering the presence of many "every men" at high levels of racing - Trevor Ashby and Steve Reed, Graeme Bailey, Barry Lawrence, Warren Cullen, David Parsons, Peter McLeod, Garry Wilmington, John French, Ron Gillard - all guys who could put together a car, or a deal to access a pretty good car, punt it credibly, and along the way become part of the fabric of the rich tapestry of racing history in our country.

Now our "heroes" are selected and marketed for us, and our access to them is limited to "approved" outings like signing sessions, sponsors' benefits ... your average racing-mad mechanic can no longer aspire realistically to be as big as his hero, you can't build a Bathurst winner under the house in your spare time anymore. If your parents didn't put you in karts as soon as you were out of nappies, you can pretty much forget it.

If you like the spectacle of "racing", by all means the Supercars are not too bad, although having the commentators talking up the "excitement" of pit strategy is pretty tame compared to watching Allan Grice and Allan Moffat trying to out-"whites of the eyes" each other under brakes at Sandown in dissimilar cars ... if you want to see motorsport that you have half a chance of participating in, a night at the skids is spectacular, and accessible ... or a club meet at Lakeside ... or a track day at Qld Raceway ...

[jiminee]

Securing the funding or backing to get yourself into a car should not be seen as a separate skill, it is as vital a part of driving as setting up the car and racecraft.

No tennis player is going to make it big without a top quality serve, no golfer will get anywhere without being able to putt - a racing car driver securing funding is just another required skill.

Some have it easier in this area as the money comes directly from the family just as some athletes are more physically gifted than others being taller, faster, stronger etc but having those traits naturally is not a guarantee of success just as not having them dooms you to failure, it simply means you have to work harder in other areas to compensate.

Start by working in a wreckers part time, help them out with running their speedway car, use them to help build your own car - win lots of races and championships - make connections, talk yourself into Formula Vee or Saloon Cars etc etc. You will need to relentlessly chase sponsors, find out how to get them to part with their money and then win LOTS of races but it can be done. It would not be easy but then making the Australian Cricket team is not easy either and getting to V8 Supercars is the equivalent.

I have seen lots of talented cricketers not make it but I have also seen how incredibly good the guys that do make it are and there is a big difference. I think we often underestimate just how good the top level of drivers are and forget that only the very pick of the bunch have the talent to get to the top.

[b195]

Originally Posted by Henry

Whincup bought a season at 888.

Can someone expand on this? Not something I'd personally heard before so I have no idea whether money or sponsorship was involved or what exactly.

[Umai Naa]

Mr Whincup stated otherwise, in that interview with Mr Crompton on V8Xtra.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Mr Whincup stated otherwise, in that interview with Mr Crompton on V8Xtra.

Working for free, picking up your own travel costs, accommodation costs.. can add up to a pretty penny...

[David Towe]

Not possible! Even a season in the development series can cost $$$$$$$ at a cost of $40-50k per round plus damages. Even a test day will cost serious dollars. And if you're good enough, you're still likely to be told to go away and get some budget together and call them when you've got it in place.
Take the case of a talented young bloke I've raced, Luke Ellery. He looks like he should be studying for his HSC, but let me tell you, the kid can drive. He is mechanically educated, is very marketable and very determined to make a career in motorsport. Average income and supportive parents with a normal income (from what I know of them). He'll have to go overseas to have a hope of progressing further and will pay his own way and look for backers there.
He drove the ex Gibson DR30 at the F1 meeting in March and put many more experienced, more affluent drivers, some of which were driving cars of questionable mechanical correctness to shame in taking third outright. Without backing, his talent will sadly unrecognised in a sport he's a gold plated talent at.

[GTS145]

David, thanks for your kind words about Luke. He actually got an equal second at the Grand Prix, and apart from a timing error on the last lap of Practice, he actually got fastest in practice as well. As the owner of that car, I couldn't believe that anyone could put my 4 cylinder Skyline on the front row at the Grand Prix. Amongst V12 Jags, V8 Walkinshaw commodores etc. The Jag and my car were the oldest Group A cars in that field, with a 7 year difference between it and the youngest car. Thats a lot of development time.

Every time Luke has driven my car, he has put it on the podium, with a first in two races at Historic Winton. I put Luke in the car trying to get his talent some exposure to his racing. As much as this was sucessful, still no offers.

Luke won the CAMS rising star award in 2009. He is still the lap record holder at Sandown for Formula Ford, he has had very good success in the USA in the USF 2000 series until his money ran out. Almost every race in America finished in a podium. He was trying to raise enough money to stay there, when a backmarker he was lapping spun in front of him and he got involved in someone elses accident. With the money it cost to fix his car, he had no budget left to contunue.

Motorsport is very cruel. On Luke's talent alone, he should already be in a V8 supercar, or Indy in the. It is all about money. Talent is NEVER going to get you anywhere in this sport. Which is very, very sad. So the answer to your question is no. Talent alone is not going to get you a drive.

Jockeys, Cricketers (even D Grade), basketballers, footballers, etc. None of these guys have to pay to compete.

[Oran Park Forever]

Thanks to modern media, there is one way....possibly

Take your WRX, Evo10 or similar road car to a track day, strap a GoPro to the dash & proceed to blow away the usual gathering of GT3s, Gallardos, 458s & the odd Caterham or Atom.....oh & the Production Car lap record!!

Then post it on youtube, see it go viral, then wait for Red Bull or similar to come knocking!

Thanks to Mrs Bieber, it worked for her sweet lil Justin....unfortunately!

.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

Thanks to modern media, there is one way....possibly

Take your WRX, Evo10 or similar road car to a track day, strap a GoPro to the dash & proceed to blow away the usual gathering of GT3s, Gallardos, 458s & the odd Caterham or Atom.....oh & the Production Car lap record!!

Then post it on youtube, see it go viral, then wait for Red Bull or similar to come knocking!

Thanks to Mrs Bieber, it worked for her sweet lil Justin....unfortunately!

.

Where does he hold a proddie car lap record ?

[Oran Park Forever]

No where, as far as l know....

But he was discovered on youtube (my point)


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