Marshal Training Video Channel?

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Instead of contacting MagnetOn or whomever else runs this site privately, I'm going to put this idea out in the open and see what people think...


Would anyone find it beneficial to have a [YouTube] video channel dedicated to marshal safety? Maybe a FREE how-to tutorial, in video form, with clear examples of what to do, what not to do, what is expected and what is frowned upon, etc. (I know CAMS Australia has a very fancy video training program which they charge for... good on 'em, but free can help more people)


Now the first thing many of you will say is taking video at the track is frowned upon. Of course it is! But if we get major organizations on board like ten-tenths, maybe a few clubs from around the world, and of course the always forward thinking FIA where Safety is Job #1... I'm sure we can make something of it, on a grassroots level. Me doing it on my own, using my own blog is small potatoes compared to what could be done as an international collective.


Similarly, there are sites dedicated to detailed write-ups. Which is cool for some of your generations :P Some even had picture tutorials, but my generations is way too lazy to read or look at pictures. We like our information regurgitated to us in video form, free of charge like all those DIY YouTube channels do it. I know how shy some of you are when it comes to having your picture taken, nevermind allowing someone to videotape... but why not? And lets face it, we need more younger people in marshalling! Recruiting someone while paying minimum wage is all fun and games, but as we learned from the girl in the tumbling ALMS Porsche @ VIR video, having a close call like that made her quit real quick. Showing what we do from day 1 may discourage some from wasting their time trying. While encouraging those that have the heart for it.


I'm just thinking outloud here, but with the off season in the northern hemisphere we could really get the ball rolling on setting something up, so that when the season does start again next year we can do something productive.


Just saying...

--Russ




PS. a senior marshal in Singapore was discouraged from showing YouTube videos during a classroom session because they were not authorized by SGP organization, or some such silliness. I'd like to see somewhat standardized (maybe not in the full bureaucratic sense of the word) set of rules to approach scenarios that would be recognized by all regardless where you marshal in the world. Dismissing that the Brits do things completely differently but then praising them how well they handled a situation while marshalling in the US, is as silly as it sounds!

[katrina.kershaw.7]

I think video footage is a great idea. Have seen some at a flag training session using an example of an incident and being asked what would you do? It was tv footage and not private footage.

[ron1902]

a great idea..when run alongside things like bmmc try a day .may help interested people get more of an idea what the mad orange world is all about.

[M Greenslade]

Hmmmm I would be very interested to know what the BMMC & the MSA would think of this.......................

Bladders

[McSatan]

On the face of it, I think it's a great idea. Maybe not youtube, but one of the established marshalling websites (or a new one?) Could have a training section with videos and documentation, perhaps multiple choice quiz/tests 'what would you do in the following scenario?' sort of thing, flags etc, radio etiquette. Example, how hard would it be to film certain elements of the forthcoming training day at Brands, the firefighting, car slinging, and the track demonstration by a racer on the importance of line of sight for flagging? Incidentally, is there an international marshals organisation?

[Steve Fox]

Good idea, They do use videos during training days those are then analysed during the training but they tend to be the "what's wrong with this picture" type. Which, unfortunately may be the problem. Most incidents are handled smoothly, almost unnoticed most of them so the videos that would help training are the ones where things go wrong (we all learn from mistakes) But I don't fancy staring in any of those.

I don't think that Marshals get it but msa licence holders do get " the interactive yearbook" That contains a video about 45 minutes long about incident handling and first aid. Well worth a look and may be just what you are talking about. Don't know how you would get a copy though, Msa?

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Steve Fox

. . .

I don't think that Marshals get it but msa licence holders do get " the interactive yearbook" That contains a video about 45 minutes long about incident handling and first aid. Well worth a look and may be just what you are talking about. Don't know how you would get a copy though, MSA?

Log on to the MSA website and download it.

Regards

Jim

[Steve Fox]

Originally Posted by JimW

Log on to the MSA website and download it.

Regards

Jim

There you go, Thanks Jim.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

Instead of contacting MagnetOn or whomever else runs this site privately, I'm going to put this idea out in the open and see what people think...

[]

I'm just thinking outloud here, but with the off season in the northern hemisphere we could really get the ball rolling on setting something up, so that when the season does start again next year we can do something productive.

Tenths fully supports the distribution of free training materials through either Tenths or (probably more appropriate in this case) MarshalsGuide.com / MarshalsPost.com

If anyone wanted to use either of these as a name for a YouTube channel and have them promoted on the various Tenths websites I'd have no problem with it as long as I was kept informed. I'd also make available an @MG/MP.com e-mail address if they wanted it.

Strangely enough I was actually thinking of filming our very own EvilPumpkin displaying / waving various flags for our recently acquired flag marshal site.

[Tal Aras]

Maybe someone could use the opportunity of the Sid Watkins lecture to ask Charlie Whiting if FOM would be prepared to make footage from the GPs and support races available for training purposes. I image they've got plenty of footage that was never broadcast showing both good and bad examples and anything that improves the standard of marshaling worldwide benefits F1.

[JimW]

Producing on-line training materials is a lot of work. Not only would we need copyright-free material (or permitted use licences) but just think how little consensus there is when a clip is referenced here and good/bad points identified. Even if we got some "authority" to approve them and the accompanying script, remember that there is no "authority" universally recognised.

Just look how differently some circuits work from others. Look how some (probably equally experienced) flag marshals do things differently.

At present trainers use video clips to illustrate their discussions and the above points don't cause any trouble.

Personally I doubt the idea has legs.

Regards

Jim

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Strangely enough I was actually thinking of filming our very own EvilPumpkin displaying / waving various flags for our recently acquired flag marshal site.

Filming me or just "whomever runs this site"? Honestly, have to wonder sometimes why we bother dear, I really do, when you see the attitude towards us from some of the people who post here. *sigh*

Overall, I think it's a good idea in theory, but I honestly have my doubts about how well it would work in practice. Get 10 marshals in a room and ask them how to do something and you may well get 10 different answers and all of them are likely to be correct, for a specific set of circumstances.

Who is going to determine that the videos are actually correct - and who is going to take the fall the first time someone does something based on one of these videos and hurts their back/falls over on telly/waves the wrong flag and decides to sue?

I would love to think that wouldn't happen, but in this day and age, I suspect that it would. There's a reason that Marshals Clubs have membership - and one of them is a certain level of indemnity against that kind of thing.

Between that, the many many different types of racing - and the different types of marshalling required for them - and the general difference in flag rules between different countries, I think it would be very difficult to put something together that would be universal.

[M Greenslade]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Filming me or just "whomever runs this site"? Honestly, have to wonder sometimes why we bother dear, I really do, when you see the attitude towards us from some of the people who post here. *sigh*

Overall, I think it's a good idea, but I honestly have my doubts about how well it would work. Get 10 marshals in a room and ask them how to do something and you may well get 10 different answers and all of them are likely to be correct, for a specific set of circumstances.

Who is going to determine that the videos are actually correct - and who is going to take the fall the first time someone does something based on one of these videos and hurts their back/falls over on telly/waves the wrong flag and decides to sue?

I would love to think that wouldn't happen, but in this day and age, I suspect that it would.

I refer you to my earlier statement.......

Hmmmm I would be very interested to know what the BMMC & the MSA would think of this.......................

Bladders

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

I refer you to my earlier statement.......

Hmmmm I would be very interested to know what the BMMC & the MSA would think of this.......................

Bladders

Well since the thread starter is in the US and I'm in Ireland, I would say that the thoughts of either the BMMC OR the MSA would not be relevant to either of us unless we were marshalling in the UK.

[TrueBlueFlyer]

No disrespect meant for you EvilPumpkin, obviously I appreciate what you run because it has helped me with my marshalling beyond the USA, but I've been penalized before for sharing my facebook link out in the open so I was fully prepared to be banned by making this post.



Coming from the land of getting sued over anything, surely the solution can't be "best not do anything, because we might get sued"


If we're so afraid of getting sued by one of our own, perhaps we should petition the FIA to make such state of the art, 21st century training available. They are an international marshalling organization, aren't they? I mean they stamp approval for every country's ASN that provides marshals for events they sanction, right? Let them get sued.


I did a simple YouTube search about marshal training video and the Isle of Man TT is the only thing that came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8WwHjWYdRM

are they the only ones that aren't worried about getting sued?


MotoGP offers a similar DVD that they send out for marshal training before their events, but I don't see it available on YouTube or any other channel.



The reason I suggested the use of YouTube is because of the potential audience that it could bring which I feel would help getting younger recruits. Keeping this exclusive, or lock the content all on one site would be limiting from the get go. If anything lets use 10-tenths forum, and all the associated web sites, along with anyone else who's got a site dedicated to marshalling - myself included, without the worry of getting penalized just for sharing the content on this discussion. The motorsport community is fragmented as it is, and sure everyone has their own opinions, but working together may actually result in something... instead of maintaining the status quo.

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Well since the thread starter is in the US and I'm in Ireland, I would say that the thoughts of either the BMMC OR the MSA would not be relevant to either of us unless we were marshalling in the UK.

I disagree. If CAMS can work with SGP organization in Singapore and KGP organization in South Korea, why can't it work (or support) the same initiatives as BMMC and MSA? Why not ask the ACO, ATCUAE and SCCA to consider this, hell get the Marshalling Association of Zimbabwe on board, why not? The more the merrier.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

No disrespect meant for you EvilPumpkin, obviously I appreciate what you run because it has helped me with my marshalling beyond the USA, but I've been penalized before for sharing my facebook link out in the open so I was fully prepared to be banned by making this post.

There are so many answers that I could type to that particular statement but since we have a rule of "attack the post, not the poster" there's nothing I can say that would adequately express how I feel about melodramatic hyperbole.

As for being sued, we get threats of that on a weekly basis and I'm here to tell you that it's no fun whatsoever. And that's just threatened libel suits. Words don't physically hurt people. Motorsport can, and does.

I would say that if something like this is going to be done, then absolutely FIA should be the ones doing it - or at least providing some kind of review and approval system for it.

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

I would say that if something like this is going to be done, then absolutely FIA should be the ones doing it - or at least providing some kind of review and approval system for it.

How do we do it?


Most of the regular contributors to this site have ages more experience than I do, many were marshalling before I was born :P any recommendations on how to proceed? Do we draft a petition? I can spread the word globally if that's what it takes, and I imagine it would.

[Steve Fox]

I suspect they may say that they spend enough on training days without needing to shell out 250 grand or more on a video production, Some may say that there are greater priorities, like the How to Marshal handbook which goes into great detail about which fires ought to be tackled with Halon extinguishers and safety car flag rules that would get you thrown off post. Still given out when you start.Have a look at the msa video detailed further up this post and then see if you still need to do more.

[deley]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

I did a simple YouTube search about marshal training video and the Isle of Man TT is the only thing that came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8WwHjWYdRM

are they the only ones that aren't worried about getting sued?


MotoGP offers a similar DVD that they send out for marshal training before their events, but I don't see it available on YouTube or any other channel.



The reason I suggested the use of YouTube is because of the potential audience that it could bring which I feel would help getting younger recruits. Keeping this exclusive, or lock the content all on one site would be limiting from the get go. If anything lets use 10-tenths forum, and all the associated web sites, along with anyone else who's got a site dedicated to marshalling - myself included, without the worry of getting penalized just for sharing the content on this discussion. The motorsport community is fragmented as it is, and sure everyone has their own opinions, but working together may actually result in something... instead of maintaining the status quo.

It is unrealistic to expect organisations (like the Motorsport Safety Fund) that have invested in making video training material to necessarily just give it away for free.
I think we already have some blurring of the lines with some of the suggestions - attracting/recruiting is distinctly different from training/retaining and needs to be supported by different types of material.

To be honest I am not sure what the problem is that you are trying to solve but judging by your other posts elsewhere it seems to be linked to what you feel is a lack of training in the US - maybe I have misinterpreted.

Dave

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by deley

It is unrealistic to expect organisations (like the Motorsport Safety Fund) that have invested in making video training material to necessarily just give it away for free.

So it comes down to money?

Originally Posted by deley

I think we already have some blurring of the lines with some of the suggestions - attracting/recruiting is distinctly different from training/retaining and needs to be supported by different types of material.

To be honest I am not sure what the problem is that you are trying to solve but judging by your other posts elsewhere it seems to be linked to what you feel is a lack of training in the US - maybe I have misinterpreted.

Dave

I firmly believe recruiting and training goes hand in hand.

And there is definitely a lack of it in the US... though we have plenty of learn on the job opportunities. Other countries don't even have that.



IF getting permission for video rights is expensive there's always ways to compromise. We don't have to shoot stuff ourselves, there's plenty of photographers who could be persuaded to contribute to the cause... SPEEDHUNTERS and /Drive come to mind. Individual teams shoot footage for their own promotion, it wouldn't take much to ask them to help us with a few clips here and there. I know they can be supportive because we have gotten them to contribute to our marshalling body before. People are afraid to ask for things but no one turned down the free gift card we gave them for marshalling an event, compliments of one team that wanted to show its appreciation.



Yes, it will take a little bit of an effort. But it is for Safety, right?

[deley]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

I did a simple YouTube search about marshal training video and the Isle of Man TT is the only thing that came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8WwHjWYdRM

Having watched the TTMA video to be honest it isn't much different to those produced by the MSF in their series (I will admit some of theirs could do with updating in places) and/or the materials used at training sessions in the UK.

Dave

[deley]

Originally Posted by TrueBlueFlyer

Other countries don't even have that.

The ability of a country and it's ASN (or other governing body) to be able to attract, train, retain and support an active set of marshals that can become to a certain extent self sufficient in terms of passing skills and experience on is not going to be fixed by videos on YouTube ..... you raise a far more fundamental question with regards to the ability for motorsport to be developed and sustained in general in some locations.

The FIA Institute has an Officials Safety Training Programme and a number of ASNs are accredited against the FIA Institute best practice framework and a number are also approved by the FIA Institute as regional training providers.

Personally I welcome the expansion of real motorsport into new areas of the world but it absolutely has to be sustainable from the country ASN downwards otherwise it will utlimately fail.

Dave

[TWRv12]

Nothing to stop the forum setting up a training sub forum and use a more reputable video host than YouTube

[EmileNaus]

Originally Posted by JimW

Log on to the MSA website and download it.

Regards

Jim

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but I can only find the MSA yearbook 2013 in PDF version. Could you point me in the right direction for the video?
Thanks!