Poduim behavior

[neilap]

I hate making posts like this but I cant hold it an anymore.

This is another reason I feel RS should not be at Williams. On the podium in Germany he did not even acknowledge his teammate. Instead he and his brother congratulated each other with MS's back to JPM. Is it just me that finds this kind of behavior appalling. RS should have spent more time with his team not his rivals. I know I am starting a war but I had to get it out.

[Sato san]

I think the fact that we have 2 brothers in F1 makes life difficult . It also goes back to the situation of whether or not Ralf will go wheel to wheel with his brother ?. It has been said also that the brothers share technical infomation on statagey with each other before races , which isnt really what the sport is about .

[f1manoz]

Who cares how they behave on the podium!!!

Would not bother me if all three ignored each other. Would remind me of the late 80s/early 90s when Prost, Senna and Mansell gave each other death stares most of the time!!!

However, neilap, I do understand your reasoning behind your argument, and to a point I agree with you. But I don't think JPM would really care if RS acknowledged him or not.

[R]

Can't say I noticed anything worthy of criticism concerning Ralf's behaviour on the podium in Germany. I did however notice JPM spraying TGF with champagne.

As we know, decisions on strategies for the races are something the teams hold closely to their chests. I'm therefore curious where you've heard that, Sato san - do you have a reference for your claim?

[Sato san]

Originally posted by R
As we know, decisions on strategies for the races are something the teams hold closely to their chests. I'm therefore curious where you've heard that, Sato san - do you have a reference for your claim?

Yes i do , it came from a unnamed F1 driver who understands German , he told Peter Windsor ( the SKY pitlane reporter) about the drivers parade on race day morning when they all stand on the back of a lorry trialer and wave at the crowd .

Peter asked him .....

"are the drivers very chatty with each other during the drivers parade or do they just keep them selfs to them selfs " ?

the unnamed driver's answer was something like this .........some of us all have a bit of a chat , some dont , but Michael and Ralf often just stand there and have a chat amongst them selfs, but sometimes they tell each other about their race statageys which there not really meant to do , but because they dont relise that i understand German and im standing near enough to them to listen , they dont think i know what there talking about !

he didnt want to be named , because obviously he also likes to know what stratageys the 2 brothers are on , and if there both silly enough to talk openly about it , he will carry on eaves dropping on them .

Which goes back to the thread , ....It cannot be healthy for the Williams F1 team , for Ralf to be telling his brother about what Williams race plans are ! .i say Ralf , because it doesnt seem to have done Michael any harm .

Having 2 brothers in F1 makes for a conflict of interests IMO , abit like what Neilap was saying about the press conference .

Its the same thing about Ralf going wheel to wheel with his brother , does he really want to risk his brothers race ?..im not too sure , i think Ralf has different priorities to the other drivers .

Oh , im not slagging Ralf off here before anyone has a go at me , im just trying to point out something thats all .

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Sato san



the unnamed driver's answer was something like this .........some of us all have a bit of a chat , some dont , but Michael and Ralf often just stand there and have a chat amongst them selfs, but sometimes they tell each other about their race statageys which there not really meant to do , but because they dont relise that i understand German and im standing near enough to them to listen , they dont think i know what there talking about !

I remember this, Peter Windsor mentioned it before the Imola race i believe, and he mentioned about the press conference at Brazil when Michael let it slip that he knew what lap Rafe would be coming in on, but then realised what he'd said and quickly changed the subject!

Isn't Sky tv wondreful!

[Legend]

Originally posted by R
Can't say I noticed anything worthy of criticism concerning Ralf's behaviour on the podium in Germany. I did however notice JPM spraying TGF with champagne.

I like what JPM did. Schumi should learn something there: When the race is over go on the podium and celebrate with friends and foes alike!

I guess it shows in a way the different mentality of northern Europeans and Latinos. Latinos are more warm.

[Jordi]

Podium is one thing.. Prost and Senna would not say anything to each other in 1989-90, but the strategies thing is something to be worried about by Williams, because it's Ferrari the one who's ahead...

[neilap]

I really enjoy seeing different cultures and speaking to people of different cultures. In the US if drivers so blatantly ignored their teammates I think it would be on ESPN a couple of times. Some people put a high priority on respect some don’t. I wonder how FW felt! Teammates need to be rivals but also they need to respect each other. JPM will give props to MS and whoever he is on the podium with while RS and his brother seem to be more selective.
I think JPM is fortunate to have grown up racing in the US. American drivers don’t act better than other people. They show much more respect and gratitude. I hope neither MS nor RS make the podium at Indy. Someone who knows how to be indiscriminate in their happiness and who respects all of the racers needs to represent F1 in the USA. Otherwise it will perpetuate the perception here that F1 drivers are snobbish little rich boys. Why people like NASCAR drivers is they show respect; even after an outburst they will go have drinks after the race.

[Jordi]

Yeah, in NASCAR it's always been said that Biffle and Harvick are good friends, even though Harvick once wanted to punch Biffle...

[Liz]

So everyone knows that TGF and his brother are unsportsmanlike spoilt babies who have a special set of rules manufactured just for them, and can never be punished for anything.

Why do people continually find this a matter of surprise?

[neilap]

Originally posted by Liz
So everyone knows that TGF and his brother are unsportsmanlike spoilt babies who have a special set of rules manufactured just for them, and can never be punished for anything.

Why do people continually find this a matter of surprise?

When I saw it I thought of how sad it was but nothing else. However, more and more it bothered me. Then to see another post here where JPM was being bashed because he does not want to race for Ferrari without equal treatment just about broke the camels back. A big deal was made when JPM said he was not worried about RS. The fact is he should not be! RS is too busy making sure nothing comes between him and his brother.

[Jukebox]

It might be very hot and from a very reliable source to hear such things happening....oh my.

Come one ....another theory?

[djb]

Given the competitiveness that must exist between the two brothers, plus the fact that they are both professionals, it doesn't make sense that they would discuss such things together, a team strategy is serious stuff. They may have been jerking each other around for a joke or something, but seriously discussing what their seperate teams had planned etc, I would think not.
"An unnamed driver" , come on, a bit flimsey no?

[Miss Hardt]

Originally posted by Sato san
I think the fact that we have 2 brothers in F1 makes life difficult

A little too difficult.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by djb

"An unnamed driver" , come on, a bit flimsey no?

I'd have to agree that "an un-named driver" does leave the statement open to cynicism, however, Peter Windsor is very respected within the pit lane and i doubt that he'd "make it up". As i posted earlier TGF also "let slip" that he knew when Rafe was coming in (at Brazil) so maybe there is some truth to the rumour.

[Hamness]

I don't have any problem with brothers in F1, but I was a little dismayed to read in the press last week that their manager (he's in a pretty good position, eh?) was going to have a quiet word with the pair of them over dinner before the German GP to make sure there was not going to be any "foolhardy" manouevres at the start (past history suggesting otherwise). Complicity? You bet!

[Spritle]

Maybe the fact that JPM has made comments like "Ralf, he doesn't worry me" might have a little to do with it.

http://www.dailyf1.com/en/news/news.php?id=1922

If I was Ralf I'd ignore JPM too. Or better yet, out qualify and race him like he did in Germany. JPM was lucky to get 2nd........by 5 seconds.

The anti Schumacher sentiment displayed by some folks on this board is so obvious it's ridiculous. So what if Ralf and Juan don't like one another. It's not like either one of them is going out of their way to be friendly toward each other with comments like JPM's. I'm not aware of any comments made by Ralf about JPM that reflect as much contempt as JPM's did.

But of course EVERYTHING is a Schumacher's fault.

[Lee Janotta]

Peter Windsor's one of the best in the business. I don't take his reports as gospel, but he gets as close to an honest answer as anyone in the F1 press community.

I can certainly understand this "unnamed driver" wanting to remain anonymous. You'd be privy to a lot of interesting info if there were powerful people nearby speaking openly in a language they didn't know you understood.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't blame the un-named driver for not wanting to be named. He is in line for a lot more valuable info as long as these two don't realise he understands what they are saying. I have very good understanding of Cantonese, and when I go into shops with my wife, I sometimes don't let on that I understand what they are saying. Sometimes the shopkeepers tell each other that here is another silly foreigner that they can rip off, and I just signal to my wife that we move on.

[djb]

I see the point about Peter Windsor not being a hack etc, but if this "unnamed driver" really exists, he's let the cat out of the bag now if this has "gotten out" even to this extent.
If I were the Schuey brothers, or HHF, or Heidfield, I'd let on I didn't know and go the disinformation route, just like in a John LeCarre novel, to route out the "mole"

anyway,, gives us something to talk about doesn't it?

ps: Ich bin Kanadia und ich spricht nicht deutsch.(A German bike touring friend taught me that to say to other Germans who would always think I was a fellow countryman.

[f1manoz]

It doesn't bother me if all the drivers hated each other. Be even more fun to watch!!

[Gt_R]

So that the "unnamed" driver often position himself near the Schumies during drivers parade huh? Dig up the photos and we'd see which fool is ALWAYS around the brothers!

Ha... yeah, so the brothers don't know that the guy understands German. But i'm sure they know that there are German drivers around too??

And may i offer a different point of view to the "I-know what-Ralf's-pit-strategy is last summer". Sunday warm ups coupled with tire choices are very good indication to teams what strategy their rivals are on. This, coupled to the initial race pace a car starts with, can very easily be used by team strategists to compute the approximate laps range a car will be doing and when they pit. You'd be surprise how detailed teams go to in such calculations. And com'on, for some of the "older" tracks on the circuits, there are only so very little ways to do a race strategy!

Quote:"(R)I did however notice JPM spraying TGF with champagne.(Legend)I like what JPM did. Schumi should learn something there: When the race is over go on the podium and celebrate with friends and foes alike!"

And if you notice enough, JPM isn't the only good guy to do such things. Schumy should learn something there??? Heck, Schumy does it even before JPM is in F1!

And what the thing about Ralf/Michael on podium antics? You mean they JUST have to ignore each other? That they must go suck-up to JPM??? I'd love to see sportsmanship, but i won't demand it. We do see JPM and Michael congratulate each other after a race/qualifying session sometimes, and that's sufficient. i'd rather they keep it honest, than put on an artificial show~

Originally posted by neilap
American drivers don’t act better than other people. They show much more respect and gratitude. I hope neither MS nor RS make the podium at Indy. Someone who knows how to be indiscriminate in their happiness and who respects all of the racers needs to represent F1 in the USA. Otherwise it will perpetuate the perception here that F1 drivers are snobbish little rich boys.

Anyone spot the contradiction?

Another alternative is that people in the US could realise that other nationalities are racing.

[Sato san]

Originally posted by Gt_R

Ha... yeah, so the brothers don't know that the guy understands German. But i'm sure they know that there are German drivers around too??

Gt_R , ....the source didnt say that every time on the drivers parade the Schumi brother stand there openly talking about the stratagys for all people to hear ! , what he said was that sometimes the brothers are chatting to each other in german unaware that the source can undersatnd what they were saying . Im sure they never shouted it out for HHF and Hiedfeld to hear , and im pretty sure that they dont wait for the drivers parade to discuss their 2 stop race plan or whatever . What they source said was that on occansions he had over heard the brothers talking about things they are not permitted to do by there teams unaware that the bloke next to them understood every word they were saying .

I beleive Peter Windsors report 100% . I think its clear to see that they both look out for each other on the track , because when ever i think about it , Canada the other year springs to mind when Ralf just wouldnt race his brother full on , even though he was in a postion in which he could have done so.