Perhaps Grand Am should...

[H16]

try and help get the Cegwa team back on the circut or the Ford Focus back running instead of spending their money allowing Cup cars to make a few laps and get their 2000 dollar prize money.

I don't know, but somehow this might make more sense than seeing about 20-30 on the grid listed as "out" after the first ten laps.

Just an opinion.

[gttouring]

what are you saying?

[Fogelhund]

I think he is suggesting using the money given to the cup cars to fund the DP cars to run instead.

[paul-collins]

Make no mistake, there is money going to support DP teams right now.

[skycafe]

Grand Am is not on a good road, and I don't see them getting back on a good road. They have very incomplete grids, they have tossed out one group of cars, the SRPs, that had crowd appeal. They have hamstrung the SRP2s, which I believe are obsolete after this year (they only seem to have the Picchio show for that class, but I don't think it ever even goes out for practice). I haven't checked, but I believe that the rules change next year for the the GTS and GT cars, reducing their technology, thus forcing the building of new cars in a bad economy. It doesn't add up. When you factor in their only big attention race being the Daytona 24, and then going to cars that can't compete in other arenas, I think you then kill the Daytona 24 grid don't you? The Porsches, Ferraris, Saleens and Moslers made the 24, and Grand Am seems on a road to replace them with something that is not exciting, and doesn't appear to have any excitment possiblity.

Wow, welcome negative old me to the group!

[GP Racer]

Welcome skycafe, your just what we need here, another Grand Am hater!LOL! Well, I happen to think the GA series has a decent future ahead of it. The DP cars have proven they can provide some good racing entertainment, the Phoenix 250 and to a lesser extent the Barber 250. Phoenix was just a great race, good action all the way. I'd dare say it was one of the best races of the year. The Barber was good to, the last lap decided the winner, although the rain kept it from being a great one.

Now, I know all the arguments against the DP's. There slow, ugly, and can't race outside of the series,but that being said, the races are exciting with all the classes being able to compete pretty well with each other. I know alot of people don't like that aspect, but I do. The DP's are just alittle quicker, they're not blowing away the rest of the field. That's the way they were designed, unlike ALMS LMP 900's which kill everyone in the field.

I believe with a few more DP cars competing, these races could be real good. I think there still sorting these cars out, and once they do, you'll see quicker times and better reliability.

[BSchneiderFan]

I still can't help but think that Grand Am could have had all the good points of the Daytona Prototypes if they'd done what the FIA did in 1999 and switched to a GTS/GT format. Affordable cars with recognisable tie-ins to street models, plus they can race at Le Mans. And a good way of involving manufacturers: GM, DaimlerChrysler, Toyota, Honda, Ford, VAG, FIAT, Porsche and Renault/Nissan all have models which could race.

[danhx]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
I still can't help but think that Grand Am could have had all the good points of the Daytona Prototypes if they'd done what the FIA did in 1999 and switched to a GTS/GT format. Affordable cars with recognisable tie-ins to street models, plus they can race at Le Mans. And a good way of involving manufacturers: GM, DaimlerChrysler, Toyota, Honda, Ford, VAG, FIAT, Porsche and Renault/Nissan all have models which could race.

That's pretty much what RobweenerPi suggested a while ago, and i agree with you just like i agreed with him. Grand-Am could probably build a very viable series if they were to go to an all GT/GTS series. After all, that's pretty much what they are now since the DPs are just glorified GT cars. I think that teams like PTG would jump at the chance to join a series like that since it is relatively similar to WC but has more international recognition. GT teams would have a chance to be the highlight of the race instead of an afterthought (to most people) like they are in the ALMS and even the current Grand-Am layout. In my opinion, it's one of the few ways that the GARRA can really grab back some of those fans that have left over the past couple years.

[BSchneiderFan]

And since GTS/GT cars are winning Daytona anyway... Arf.

[Tim Northcutt]

A few notes:

GP Racer...I did watch the replay of the Barber Park race...the weather was a factor (especially drainage) that hurt the overall quality of the event, but I liked the circuit a lot...

Doran made it an exciting finish (with a lot of help from JC France's inexperience as a driver -- he should spend a few years racing in lower amateur classes befoe coming back to prototypes) and I was impressed with the Mosler's run, despite their bad luck...

Overall, I'm still not thrilled with thier action, but I'll still keep an open mind...and I'll watch...

initial impressions...I still think GA went the wrong direction on this one...but I'm willing to at least observe...can't make a long-term judgment without seeing for myself...

[skycafe]

Well, what if you dump the DP's (someone will buy them and put them on the street, so investments can be recovered), keep and encourage GTS and GT, and introduce a smaller GT type class, around 2000cc plus or so? Mazda Miata, the various sports sedans (saloons for those in Europe). The roads here are populated with Toyatas, Hondas, Nissans, etc. with full aero kits and big wings. Get that crowd to the track as spectators, paying money and interested, exposed to the GT cars. Then, and here I am going way out on a limb, tie them into as many NASCAR weekends as you can (for the ovals with road courses). Run them on Saturdays. Put money into promotion, buy some television time.

Potentially you bring in a new spectator crowd which could also carry over into spectating for the NASCAR events (not much help needed there).

The Moslers are awesome in the flesh, by the way, and the Ferrari 360's are a joy.

[Tim Northcutt]

I don't know if the NASCAR Crowd would connect with the "Hi-Rev Tuner" side of this at all....they don't seem to be the types to be interested in Japanese Blenders on Steroids with wings and such to dress them up....

It couldn't hurt....GA doesn't seem to be drawing anyone now....

[Fogelhund]

The Bet has been made. It will either survive or not.

GT will be an amalgamation of classes, and slower then it is even today.

[GP Racer]

Skycafe, I just don't think theres a market for the smaller GT class you talk about, at least not for the big time racing market. The SCCA runs those type of races already anyway, and I don't think there a very big draw.

I believe the series wants to go to only two classes anyway, but what two they end up with, I don't know.

At the end of the Barber250, they interviewed one of the DP team crew chiefs(I forget who). When asked about the performance of his car, he stated that" the team is still trying to get the car right, to find the best set-up, and figure out some of the quirks". I take that to mean that these cars are only going to get better with time. I don't think these crews or drivers have had much time to test and run these cars. Given time, who knows, we may come to revere these cars as much as the Porsche 917's and Ferrari 333's! I know, I know, just kidding!

Lets call these cars " a work in progress"!

[skycafe]

I was thinking something along the lines of what is going on in the Japanese GT series. Several of those cars are marketed in the US.

As far as the NASCAR tie in, I was thinking about a few places like Homestead and California, which would have the more untradtional NASCAR fans.

[H16]

It looks as if the days of a GT outrunning the protos are over. G/A is restricting the fuel capicity of these cars mid season.

Funny, this doesn't sound like rules "stability".

I think they are somewhat upset that there are only four cars and three teams running the series and no one has, so far, bought another. I am sure that the announcers in the speed booth would say that "tons" of people are ready to jump in, but G/A must be somewhat concerned.

Now the DPs can beat the feared GT Ferraris and Porsches. They already added 50 lbs of weight to GTS before Homestead and also put less power and a spec rear wing on. Oh my, they beat up on restricted GT and GTS/AGT cars. Perhaps this is why no one likes the formula?

[Tim Northcutt]

Maybe they can require the Mosler to run in reverse when it races instead of using its forward gears, too....

This is just a septic overflow from the same NASCAR mentality that they had in recent years when they changed shapes of noses, heights of spoilers, etc., every other week to try to keep everyone "equal" before finally creating a basic template that everyone pretty much uses now.....there are 33 different dimensions and templates used to measure a NASCAR chassis, and for the four automakers, 18 of those 33 dimensions and templates are exactly the same....

Why don't they just create a set of parameters, restrictors, etc., and let the cars race.....it is supposed to be "competition," not Communism...where eveyone is equal and if you happen to be faster because you worked harder or smarter, we'll just hav eto slow you down so the "not as smart or hard-working" can have a chance, too...

Sorry, but that mentality is enough to make me puke...and it is ruining racing here in the States.....

[danhx]

So you're a big fan of GA, eh Tim?

[Lee Janotta]

That's the whole point though, Tim... NASCAR supporting series that won't rival them, to try and destroy series that could pose a threat. Hence the IRL alliance, and the support of Grand-Am... They keep CART and IMSA gasping for breath because the sponsor market is cut in half.

It's really a sick obsession... There's nothing outside that could bring down NASCAR at this point, profits would be outrageous even if CART and IMSA both tripled their market share.

[Tim Northcutt]

I know very well, LeeJanotta....unfortunately, many forms of racing will suffer, and the quality of competition that will be left will be what Grand Am is trying to pawn off as sportscar racing....

I'm really trying to keep an open mind and give it a chance...I even make a special point of watching it with the hopes that it will improve, but I have yet to see anything that I like about their current path to racing mediocrity....

Dumbing down prototypes and making everything else slower to make them look better is not my idea of progress....