Winning a Grand Prix isn't easy

[Kicking-back]

Winning a Grand Prix is a tremendous achievement - even to just do it once is something most drivers will never even get near.

In the past twenty seasons from 1985-2004, only twenty eight drivers have won a Grand Prix.

Sometimes I think the individual race win is overlooked as an achievement,

[Knowlesy]

I don't think it is. I guess it depends how often someone wins a race though.

Take Kimis Spa win last year. The majority raved about its brilliance.

However, people will be less inclined to celebrate a Michael victory in the same way because he makes it look so clinical and simple and does it so often.

But despite this, I don't think we have lost sight of the achievement of winning a GP! It is an achievement not only for the drivers but for the guys responsible for the car, the running of the team, everyone involved!

[Rich R]

it's different when schumacher wins though, possibly because he has won well over a tenth of the world championship gps ever held. it means a lot to win a gp because to do it you have proven to be the best in the world on that day, same now as any time in the past.

[Dixie Flatline]

That statistic doesn't really surprise me. To put it into perspective, it's quite clear that if a driver does not have a competitive car, he won't be near the front to challenge for the win. If he does have a competitive car, then he'll have a teammate who also has the same car (of course, with different approach to setting up the car depending on the driver's idiosyncracies). Furthermore, he will also be up against two or three other drivers who have, to within half a second or so, cars that are just as competitive.

Then, there is a driver who is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of talent who will tend to dominate the sport for a period of time. In the 80s, we went through the likes of Alan Jones at the start of the decade, through Piquet, Prost, Senna. In the early period of the 90s, if you weren't driving a Williams, you might as well drive for third place, such was their dominance. Then a bloke by the name of Schumacher started making waves for Benetton, before the attention switched back to Williams for the middle part of the 90s. Suddenly, it was the turn of Mika Hakkinen to monopolise race wins, punctuated by some successful drives from Schumacher. Then, as we all know, the first four seasons of the 21st century have been dominated by Michael.

[Gabrio]

I agree with KB on this. Winning is always an achievement in any category of motorsport and F1 is something else yet. I fully respect even the last guy on the grid in F1, firstly because he got there and then because he's probably among the 100 top drivers in the world at that time. MS has made a job out of his excellence just as Borg had done in tennis a few years ago. It looks easy but it never is. My estimate is that a professional driver has to get the best out of every opportunity and bring his car to the possible maximum result, which is what MS does. He also put his car more than once where it did not belong winning incredible races which may have looked easy but were not at all.
Anybody who leaves his mark on the winners circle in F1 is a great driver because he cannot win for no reason.

[Aysedasi]

I agree too. Its all too easy to minimise the achievement whenever Michael wins but it is still a major achievement. Look at threads elsewhere about best drivers never to win GPs and you realise what an achievement it is still. When Jenson wins his first GP this coming season, plenty of us will see it as a major achievement, I'm sure.......

[James North]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

When Jenson wins his first GP this coming season, plenty of us will see it as a major achievement, I'm sure.......

I will see it as historic result to be remembered. But it depends on how it is achieved, weather or not I look at as a major achievement. If he takes the by the scruff of the neck and wins it by sheer merit, beating everybody (including Schumacher) in a straight fight then I would look on it as a major and yardstick achievement. If it happens by forturne and through attition, I'd look at it as a lucky result, but still a historic result.

Relatively speaking ofcourse, for the average joe bloggs, simply getting any where near driving in F1 would be a major achievement.

The top drivers in F1 are established and experienced in their field, so what would be a extraordinary for most people, is the norm for them. People have stopped picking out Schumachers wins and calling them major achievements, simply because he does it so often and routinely that we've come to expect it, and are surprised when it doesn't happen. When someone is as successful as him, it's natural (if in some ways a little unfair) to look at the times when he doesn't win, as major failures.

Everything is relative.

[neil_davidson2]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

It is an achievement not only for the drivers but for the guys responsible for the car, the running of the team, everyone involved!

Absolutely right. Regardless of how a win is achieved (legally of course ) it is a great achievement and not only down to the driver. I'm sure Schu would be the first to acknowledge the role that Ross Brawn amongst others have played in his many victories.

Someone made the comment that if a win is achieved by attrition then it's lucky - well you often need a little luck in life. To win the GP you have to be on the track at the front when the flag falls - if others have chucked it at the scenery or had their cars break down, then it's a still a great achievement for the winner because the team produced a car that has stayed together and the driver has kept it on the track while others haven't.

[James North]

A excellent achievment yes. But still not as great as it might be if achieved without the aid of attrition.

[Adam43]

That is a difficult point. Whether it is through attrition or being quicker. The attrition of others may come because they are trying to keep up with you (generally and specifically in that race).

Also some races are hard fought (and close), some are dominations. Perhaps you work harder in the former, but in the later you are so much better than the rest. So both are achievements.

Each GP is 10 points, although it may be a different kind of achievement.

[ralf fan]

If winning a GP was easy.... Ferrari wouldnt be paying Schumacher millions to do so..theyd just put one of the engineers to go and driver the car...

Just imagine doing 70 laps of relatively identical times.... a bad lap could mean the end... id say even MS's dominant victories are achievements...even though they may be boring...having a fast car is one thing...but to drive it to the limit lap after lap, race after race is another...

[Lonicera]

You do need luck as well as skill to win a GP, looks at the likes of Derek Warwick and Martin Brundle, both had the ability and acheived podium places, but never got that elusive win. I'm sure they would have been more than happy win a win by attrition. The only wins that could be considered 'devalued' would be those won by team orders / collusion, but even then I can think of 2 situations where these were maiden wins that led to eventual championships - Mansell at Brands where Keke Rosberg held up front runners while being almost a lap down and Mika's end of season win that was 'gifted' by Williams. In both cases, the drivers had finally got the monkey off their backs and drove on the greatness.

[jj2728]

i'd like to have a GP win on my resume...

[BSchneiderFan]

How important do we think the first win is? Does it open the floodgates, as it did for Hakkinen? Will it for Button?

[Kicking-back]

I think that's slightly overstated.

A driver gets into a car which is able to win, he wins and then unsurprisingly that car is competitive at many races afterwards.

[Glen]

I can think of at least one driver that has been in a top car and got the long-awaited win but has failed to make that a catalyst for a more sucessful and winning career...

[Kicking-back]

Jarno Trulli?

[Glen]

He's hardly been in a top car has he? His win was tremendously well deserved with a car that suited that particular circuit.

I'm thinking of another under-achiever. Always been in excellent cars. Big old chin. You know the one. TSF.

[Kicking-back]

Ah, Coulthard bashing again! How silly of me to think otherwise.

Last time I checked the records, David Coulthard had won thirteen Grands Prix - hardly a one-hit wonder!

[Glen]

I'm not bashing KB - it's pretty obvious that DC was the subject of your thread - that we should give him credit for winning 13 GPs. Actually, I do give him credit but I was drawn to leg-pulling because of the transparent motive for your original post!

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Glen

I'm not bashing KB - it's pretty obvious that DC was the subject of your thread - that we should give him credit for winning 13 GPs. Actually, I do give him credit but I was drawn to leg-pulling because of the transparent motive for your original post!

This thread had absolutely nothing to do with David Coulthard.

I started it because I heard the statistic last night that only twenty-eight drivers had won a grand prix in the past twenty seasons.

I then thought it an interesting follow up to the previous threads about new winners and such, as it is possible we may have 3 or 4 new winners this year which would be unusual as a simple 28 divided by 20 tells us to expect 1 or 2 new winners a year.



Your post was the first that made me think of DC.

While I defend him from some of the (unfair) criticism he gets, I am no particular fan of Coulthard. I just don't have the same blind spot towards him that many do.

[Glen]

OK then - sorry for the misplaced tease.

[Kicking-back]

Taken in good humour, Glen

[dcp2685]

Originally Posted by Gabrio

I agree with KB on this. Winning is always an achievement in any category of motorsport and F1 is something else yet. I fully respect even the last guy on the grid in F1, firstly because he got there and then because he's probably among the 100 top drivers in the world at that time. MS has made a job out of his excellence just as Borg had done in tennis a few years ago. It looks easy but it never is. My estimate is that a professional driver has to get the best out of every opportunity and bring his car to the possible maximum result, which is what MS does. He also put his car more than once where it did not belong winning incredible races which may have looked easy but were not at all.
Anybody who leaves his mark on the winners circle in F1 is a great driver because he cannot win for no reason.

I believe that's actually Pete Samprass you're talking about there.

I agree though. Any win is a tremendous achievement. I think it doesn't get as much credit as it deserves now simply because how easy Micheal makes it look.

When you look at the rest of the field, at the moment not many people have a chance because of how dominant Schuey is. When someone like Fisichella wins a random one in a Jordan.....that's really special. Since it took him almost 10 years to do so. Same with Trulli.

When it takes 10 & 15 laps for the front 4 teams to lap the minardis and jordans respectively, it's mighty difficult for new drivers (and some older....quite frankly i'm still surprised Fisi was on the lead lap when he won) to pick up wins. Especially when the 8 seats in the top 4 teams are filled...aka....Davidson and up until now Heidfield (temendous talent w/ no place to go until this year) hopefully he'll make his mark.

[Tweed]

It's interesting that Jenson Button says he isn't bothered so much about race wins, just about winning the championship. Stirling Moss always said there was too much emphasis on the world title rather than race wins.