Snatch and recovery at Oulton Park

[brian_bury]

I know snatch veh's are used at other tracks so why does it take so long to do the same thing at Oulton Park ? is it that the drivers are not trained and is it time that the marshal's took over this vital work ( with the right training ) and why does it take so long to recover any cars that have come to greif in the cat litter?? is it me just getting old and everything seems to take longer to do????

[mmm_five]

It doesn't help that certain race series don't want anyone touching their cars other then there own specially-trained teams.

[Teletubby]

Originally Posted by mmm_five

It doesn't help that certain race series don't want anyone touching their cars other then there own specially-trained teams.

Such as? I hope you're not referring to the BTCC as they don't have their own 'specially-trained teams', they rely on the recovery teams at the circuit being efficient.

[The STIG]

Thought circuits had to have special licences to perform snatching, or am I thinking of something else.

Teletubby: I've not experienced BTCC myself, but I hear that it's often a team of mechanics dispatched from the pits down to a car to do the recovery. I think that's what five was referring to.

***DISCLAIMER***

This may be solid bovine (male) effluent.

[brian_bury]

well if they dont want anyone else to touch the cars then they should tell the driver to keep it on the black stuff

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by brian_bury

well if they dont want anyone else to touch the cars then they should tell the driver to keep it on the black stuff

Thats very easy for you to say but I ended up deep in the kitty litter last week because I had to change direction to avoid a car that had got completly out of shape either that or T-bone it. I have been working on my car today and I was a bit disapointed at the unneccessary damage caused to the car by the snatch team, just why they had to lift the car quite so high as well as drag it to get it out the gravel is a mystery to me at it was the lifting that did the damage to the rear panel. And while on the subject is the Silverstone gravel larger and deeper than anywhere else as I must have cleared about half a hundredweight of the stuff out and some of it was as large as inch in diameter?

[DarrellB]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Thought circuits had to have special licences to perform snatching, or am I thinking of something else.

Teletubby: I've not experienced BTCC myself, but I hear that it's often a team of mechanics dispatched from the pits down to a car to do the recovery. I think that's what five was referring to.

***DISCLAIMER***

This may be solid bovine (male) effluent.

If you have had no experience then why bother with posting at all

The BTCC relies on the efficiency of the recoveries at each circuit like any other race series, tho some seem more efficient than others. Not only that but standards of tyrewall and armco seems to be variable from circuit to circuit and therefore the clean-up operation can take a very long time.

[gravel_monkey]

i think the confusion with the teams is this, if the car has to be snatched during a race it is down to the snatch teams including the vehicle drivers and marshals to get the car shifted. when it is being recovered at the end of the race some of the btcc teams will send team members to bring the car back in with the circuits recovery team.

[James Elder]

Ok, to answer the original question, the reason is one of those licensing things - snatch vehicles can only be used at tracks where there are live TV cameras. Silverstone and Donington both have permanent CCTV, but Oulton doesn't have a TV system (except on weekends like the BTCC when cameras are wired in all round the circuit).

[kosher_pig]

Originally Posted by James Elder

Ok, to answer the original question, the reason is one of those licensing things - snatch vehicles can only be used at tracks where there are live TV cameras. Silverstone and Donington both have permanent CCTV, but Oulton doesn't have a TV system (except on weekends like the BTCC when cameras are wired in all round the circuit).

Why the #$%& do they use snatch vehicles at only tracks with cameras?....to show how incompetent they are? what a load of cobblers As for getting cars out of kitty litter the tow eyes SHOULD be strong enough to pull them out with a 4X4....metal tow eyes not those silly webbing ones...thats the problem we have in Australia ..as soon as any strain is put on the strap..SNAP..its gone. Some of us reckon if that happens put a chain around the B-pillar to tow it...then they might put decent eyes on the car

[jcbsrule]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Thats very easy for you to say but I ended up deep in the kitty litter last week because I had to change direction to avoid a car that had got completly out of shape either that or T-bone it. I have been working on my car today and I was a bit disapointed at the unneccessary damage caused to the car by the snatch team, just why they had to lift the car quite so high as well as drag it to get it out the gravel is a mystery to me at it was the lifting that did the damage to the rear panel. And while on the subject is the Silverstone gravel larger and deeper than anywhere else as I must have cleared about half a hundredweight of the stuff out and some of it was as large as inch in diameter?

Your to blame for the damage
FIT A GOOD STRUDY TOWING EYE

A nice simple snatch I thought but oooohhhh no, the towing eye marked on the rear of your car was as soft as cheese and could not be used So we used a spring hanger. A little lift is used to stop a bow wave been created,

[mmm_five]

If I'd have meant the BTCC I would have said the BTCC!

I meant that there is more than one driver/team in different series' that almost seem to think we damage cars on purpose, when our sole intention is to get the car (& driver) in a safe position as quickly as possible, be it by snatch, hook, straight tow or brute marshal force (or JCB digger )

If you're pushing on a car to get it out of the gravel or tyre wall, you're don't need to be worrying that the panel you're pushing on will bend and leave you with an invoice for damage from the team

We were pushing one car (single seater) when the driver asked us not to push on the front tyres as we might bend the suspension - so we used the rear tyres & wing instead - but the wing didn't look particularly straight after we'd finished and he blamed us for that

We've also had to bend/remove bodywork in the past to get to the towing eye that's moved during impact - where it would take extra time to get bodywork off by using allen keys and screwdrivers when Control are hurrying to get the race back on.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by James Elder

Ok, to answer the original question, the reason is one of those licensing things - snatch vehicles can only be used at tracks where there are live TV cameras.

That, of course, only applies to snatching under race conditions. CCTV is not required if the snatch is done with the race neutralised by the safety car.

[archaic gold]

I have always understood that 'live' snatching can only be carried out at specified Race Circuits (with CCTV), and specified Meetings; authorised by the MSA. The reason for CCTV is that the Operations Clerk must overlook the operation. Disaster could occur if a Manito/JCB suddenly crossed onto the 'black-stuff' in front of a full pack of racers with or without a Safety Car.

[Mike Kelly 1]

Originally Posted by brian_bury

I know snatch veh's are used at other tracks so why does it take so long to do the same thing at Oulton Park ? is it that the drivers are not trained and is it time that the marshal's took over this vital work ( with the right training ) and why does it take so long to recover any cars that have come to greif in the cat litter?? is it me just getting old and everything seems to take longer to do????

You obviously missed the snatch that happened at Lodge during the first Seat race then. The Observer called for the SC so that we could get a car out of the gravel, the tractor was moving as the last car passed us ready to form up behind the SC, I had the car hooked up, got in the car and had it towed out backwards in to the gap at lodge before the SC even got to Druids. The SC then put its lights off and came in after only doing 1 lap. Is that fast enough for you!!!

[BeeJ]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly 1

You obviously missed the snatch that happened at Lodge during the first Seat race then. The Observer called for the SC so that we could get a car out of the gravel, the tractor was moving as the last car passed us ready to form up behind the SC, I had the car hooked up, got in the car and had it towed out backwards in to the gap at lodge before the SC even got to Druids. The SC then put its lights off and came in after only doing 1 lap. Is that fast enough for you!!!

I must admit I was impressed with that one. I think most of the delays were more the tyrewall/amrco repairs as opossed to snatch delays.

[Shelagh]

What I fail to understand is why snatches can happen without a safety car IF the circuit (Donington & Silverstone) has cameras BUT NOT if they don't ...???? Does having a camera mean that someone can yell over a radio "watch out"!?? - because, excuse me, ain't that what we're all doing all the time anyway? (By the way, this is assuming no tyre wall contact.)
MSA - please rethink this rule because it didn't half destoy Sunday in terms of action, that is RACING.

[archaic gold]

Basically, Shelagh, if the Clerk responsible, (and it could be delegated) can see the whole scenario, he/she can guide the Manito/JCB operator via the two way radio, when it is safe to move and in what direction. I repeat from my previous post that you do not want a Competitor hitting the snatch vehicle!

[scorch]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

you do not want a Competitor hitting the snatch vehicle!

Very true, i really don't want to think of a FF hitting a 7.5 ton JCB.

But back on topic, I guess it's all up to the MSA, they will need to amend the circuit operating license to permit snatching, also don't forget that at some circuits it is the marshals that do the recovery and snatching, and yes there is regular training. But i'm sure if you spoke to most drivers they consider us just hooligans who want to break cars.

and for the record it's very rare for a towing eye to break, the eye is usually in perfect condition it's just what it attached to that gives way.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by jcbsrule

Your to blame for the damage
FIT A GOOD STRUDY TOWING EYE

A nice simple snatch I thought but oooohhhh no, the towing eye marked on the rear of your car was as soft as cheese and could not be used So we used a spring hanger. A little lift is used to stop a bow wave been created,

That car weighs over 3200lbs unfortunately so any towing eye to physically lift and drag would have to be so massive as to be impractical, its all ok in theory but in practice is just would not work. Adrian in the capri had a very sturdy one fitted but that just snapped off when snatched from the same place. I personally think the kitty litter at Silverstone is a bit OTT I know why of course, its the GP circuit and cars could hit that at a very high speed bit when a weighty saloon hits it then it just gets buried and no towing eye would ever be strong enough to lift and tow like that not on my car at least. I will look at again but I really fail to see what I can do. BTW do you want a few kilos of stones back?

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly 1

You obviously missed the snatch that happened at Lodge during the first Seat race then. The Observer called for the SC so that we could get a car out of the gravel, the tractor was moving as the last car passed us ready to form up behind the SC, I had the car hooked up, got in the car and had it towed out backwards in to the gap at lodge before the SC even got to Druids. The SC then put its lights off and came in after only doing 1 lap. Is that fast enough for you!!!

You don't count Mike. Everyone knows that you can pull it out with yer teeth or just glare at it until it goes away.

[jcbsrule]

No thanks you keep it Al . the bed is around 6 feet deep and it is not gravel as such its called litag (I bet the spellings wrong)

[Al Weyman]

6ft! Bloody hell if I went in any faster it would have buried me and the car, is that stuff unique to Silverstone as I have been into it several times there but have not seen anything quite like it elsewhere? I also remember a guy that had a turbo twin cam 216 going in and he had no cam belt cover fitted, one of those big stones got between the belt and the pulley and lunched the motor!

Yes I understand why you would not let me back out on the track when I see exactly how much of the stuff was still on board.

[gachjoel]

So if circuits require a licence to have snatch teams,are the people who operate the snatch vehicles trained in motorsport snatches or are they outside recovery crews hired in for recovery.
If the latter,should circuits look at training people for this job due to the urgency of removing the vehicle.
Or do they think `Snatch` was just a fancy name given to the operation ?

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by James Elder

Silverstone and Donington both have permanent CCTV, but Oulton doesn't have a TV system

And Brands Hatch now!