|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
12 Nov 2018, 11:42 (Ref:3862733) | #1 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Supercar in Five Years Time
I have a question, if the present rules are kept what cars will be racing under those rules in five years time.
|
|
|
12 Nov 2018, 12:03 (Ref:3862734) | #2 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,386
|
I suspect there wont be one car called Holden.
Maybe some other GM brand? |
||
|
12 Nov 2018, 20:39 (Ref:3862879) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,517
|
sad to see what it has evolved into
|
||
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears |
13 Nov 2018, 00:01 (Ref:3862921) | #4 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,661
|
Seems inevitable that it will become a NASCAR-esque silhouette series with stickers on the front end to convince us that somehow the innards are different.
|
||
__________________
Punters Beer Fest. Indy 02, Clipsal 03, Winton 04, Paperclip 05, Darwin 06, Oran Park 07, Phillip Island 08, Sandown 09, Townsville 10, Symmons 11, Eastern Creek 12, Winton 13. Townsville 14. Paperclip 15, Sandown 16, Symmons 17, PI 18, The Bend 19 |
13 Nov 2018, 01:11 (Ref:3862930) | #5 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,540
|
Quote:
Assuming they stay V8, surely Mustang and Camaro are likely, perhaps Stinger? Not sure that other manufacturers would see the benefit from participating, otherwise they have the opportunity to have entered already. Supercars need to increase the attractiveness of the series - audience size, demographics, cost, etc. |
|||
|
13 Nov 2018, 01:45 (Ref:3862939) | #6 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
I can't even begin to think what cars under the present rules would be used apart from Mustang and Camaro and I think they have a limited interest span for the Oz audience. Beyond that it is big European sedans and they have about the same level of interest as the two American cars. For certain the rules would be a barrier for the Europeans and overall I don't think they would be interested at any level if they can't use their own drive line.
|
|
|
13 Nov 2018, 02:30 (Ref:3862947) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,014
|
Quote:
I think a move towards prestige compact sedans that actually come with rear-wheel-drive and that actually come with four cylinder turbo or six cylinder forced induction engine options is most crucial. The field should be made up of: - Alfa Romeo Giulia - Jaguar XE - Mercedes C-class - BMW 3 series - Hyundai Genesis G70 - Lexus IS - Infiniti Q50 Cars that come from the factory with four doors, rear wheel drive, and which are performance-orientated. A touring car for crying out loud! The current series seems to have lost the plot in terms of representing the kinds of performance cars that inner-city executives aspire to lease. Once upon a time they could cheer on the E30 M3, the 190E Cosworth and so on... I think they should be compact sedans that are more nippy and over-powered. Fans loved the HR31 Skyline, it was lightweight, agile, well-balanced at a meagre 1100kg race weight. Likewise Ford Sierra, likewise BMW M3. The Infiniti Q50 is the modern day Skyline, and it would be great to see it and its rivals in the field! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 13 Nov 2018 at 02:42. |
||
|
13 Nov 2018, 02:59 (Ref:3862949) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
|
||
|
14 Nov 2018, 22:16 (Ref:3863367) | #9 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,704
|
Quote:
These cars were 100% the reason the V8 rules got put together. |
|||
|
14 Nov 2018, 23:08 (Ref:3863374) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,014
|
Quote:
A simple requirement for two wheel drive only and a maximum capacity of 2.0L for turbocharged cars (so Nissan could run the Skyline GTS-T instead of GTR) would have allowed for great battles between Sierra, Skyline, and Commodore to continue indefinitely! The Commodore could have had it's capacity bumped up to say 5.7L, which surely would be enough to make it competitive against 2.0L turbos? BMW runners could have run a 540i with a capacity bump to 5.7L (maybe a 5.7L version of the V12 engine from the 850i?). Later on, the Ford runners could then have upgraded to a 2WD version of the Escort Cosworth or a Falcon with a 5.7 V8, depending on what they preferred. Where was the initiative to keep turbocharged cars and keep a good variety of manufacturers in the ATCC!? Since you are moving away from Group A, then why not make rules flexible to accommodate as many manufacturers as possible? Why not have 2.0L turbos racing on equal terms with 5.7L NA cars? The Toyota Supra runners could have upgraded from the JZA70 to the iconic JZA80 -- a downsized 2.0L version of the 2JZ engine may have been a great base for a touring car! The Jones team may have entered a lovely turbocharged 2.0L rear drive Audi 80 which would have been a truly grand thing! A terrible set of restrictive rules! Not even permitting a BMW 540i for outright contention let alone anything else not a Commodore or Falcon. How about: Option 1: Two-wheel-drive, maximum 2000cc, forced induction, 1100kg minimum, 10" maximum rim width [Sierra, R32 Skyline GTS-T, HR31 Skyline etc] Option 2: Two-wheel-drive, maximum 5700cc, naturally aspirated, 1250kg minimum, 12" maximum rim width [Commodore, Falcon, 540i etc] * Rotary engines, 1000cc maximum for option 1, 2850cc maximum for option 2. For all: Non-standard front splitter and rear wing allowed as per Group 3A Why was a such simple equivalence too hard for them!? Why on earth make a fleet of Sierras obsolete? Why on earth alienate works BMW, Nissan and Toyota teams? Absolute madness! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 14 Nov 2018 at 23:38. |
||
|
20 Nov 2018, 03:36 (Ref:3864400) | #11 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Different times that we can't judge by today's standards. it may surprise a lot of people that Nissan had a paddock full of GTR's with grass growing up around the door handles that no one wanted to buy at any price.
|
|
|
15 Nov 2018, 07:34 (Ref:3863405) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,386
|
Surely back then the local market found the Commodore / Falcon, Holden / Ford in a more dominant market position. Now Holden and Ford are barely in the car market, outsold by Toyota and every other overseas sourced cars.. Ford v Holden now is becoming less relevant with every year that passes.
|
||
|
15 Nov 2018, 08:15 (Ref:3863420) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,704
|
And yet these terrible restrictive rules have outlived the life of any other comparable racing class by a 4 or 5 times.
|
||
|
13 Nov 2018, 04:58 (Ref:3862969) | #14 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,069
|
Realistically - a reactive, patched-up version of what it currently is.
Optimistically - it becomes a true touring car series, similar to what V8 Fireworks mentioned/proposed above. Hopefully someone with foresight will assume control, and make it happen. |
|
|
13 Nov 2018, 08:31 (Ref:3862974) | #15 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 243
|
As much as I didn't like Group A at the time, you can't argue the number of manufacturers involved which made it interesting. Maybe a return to something similar or V* Fireworks mentioned? I would hope what ever it Supercars morphs into that it becomes easier and cheaper for manufacturer involvement, more relevance to the market and easier for even privateers to be involved with.
|
||
|
13 Nov 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3863007) | #16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 655
|
Only 4 years ago we had 5 manufacturers represented on the grid and all appeared rosy (on the surface anyway). Where we'll be in 5 years time I struggle to really conceptualise it. I honestly don't know and sadly probably don't care.
|
|
|
13 Nov 2018, 11:45 (Ref:3863010) | #17 | |
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 407
|
Quote "The current series seems to have lost the plot in terms of representing the kinds of performance cars that inner-city executives aspire to lease. Once upon a time they could cheer on the E30 M3, the 190E Cosworth and so on..."
Geez you make me giggle sometimes, how many aspirational inner city "executives" are interested in motorsports (apart from yourself ?), I guess if we built bicycle paths to the race tracks, served smashed avos and lattes and sold lycra team supporter gear we could be onto something. |
|
|
13 Nov 2018, 21:32 (Ref:3863171) | #18 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,117
|
|||
__________________
In the words of the Great Forrest Gump: I'm not a smart man, but at least I know where the Dog on the Tuckerbox is |
13 Nov 2018, 13:27 (Ref:3863029) | #19 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,454
|
The problem is, motorsport everywhere is becoming effectively one make racing. Even where they're not, the dreaded parity or balance of performance systems mean manufacturers make variations of the same car. There is nowhere a manufacturer genuinely competes against another using a car which is derived directly from what they put on the road. Which is unfortunate.
V8s have added another layer of problem by effectively limiting the manufacturers, and producing a car which is specific to a small market. It increases the cost and reduces the return. The basic idea of the cars is great - we're all very jealous - but it's now becoming bespoke cars built by specialist teams without needing any manufacturer input and is probably unsustainable in it's current form. |
||
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
15 Nov 2018, 19:58 (Ref:3863529) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,517
|
I have been trying to find a post I posted on here years and years ago, it contained a picture of a young bloke holding a sign saying that "V8Supercars will be gone by 2018). I pretty much nailed it - I just with I could find it
|
||
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears |
18 Nov 2018, 04:31 (Ref:3863895) | #21 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,250
|
There seems to be a good supply of rose tinted glasses in this forum.
the 5 litre v8 formula was brought in as Group A was killing racing. The crowds were down in a big way, promoters were complaining entries were thin and fans couldnt relate to sierras and gtrs and bmw etc They had to "load" the rules to make the holden competitive or nobody would go. the 5litre v8 formula was almost a panic to save touring car racing. Unfortunately they seemed to have lost "touring cars" in the process. |
||
|
18 Nov 2018, 07:08 (Ref:3863929) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,704
|
|||
|
18 Nov 2018, 12:15 (Ref:3863967) | #23 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,864
|
Where do I see Supercars in five years time...?
In the same place it's in now, with all the same arguments, complaints, etc surrounding it. But possibly with new engine regulations. |
||
|
18 Nov 2018, 17:21 (Ref:3864002) | #24 | ||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
|
Toyota Prius wins the Vegetarian Express Bathurst 1000.
|
||
|
18 Nov 2018, 22:37 (Ref:3864049) | #25 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,014
|
Toyota TS050 Hybrid wins the 86th 24 Hours of Le Mans
Fixed that for you While I don't think it is optimal for sportscars to be carrying hundreds of kilograms of batteries, the BMW i8, Porsche 918 and Honda NSX are the start of hybrid sportscars, the Porsche 911 will soon be going hybrid too, and eventually you'd expect other sportscars to follow hybrid trends (even USA's own Ford GT, Mustang, Dodge Viper, Corvette and Camaro?)... Arguably the electric motors have advantages for torque vectoring (like the NSX's front axle) and torque fill (like the NSX's rear axle). Electric motors may also find their way onto the turbocharger shaft (like in F1) as a kind of anti-lag for pre-spooling on the one hand and energy recovery on the other hand. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 18 Nov 2018 at 22:43. |
|
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
WSBK Monza - Five Makers In Top Five. | Hazza | Bike Racing | 9 | 11 May 2006 01:45 |
Worst driver we've seen on grid in the last five years | Menelaos | Formula One | 69 | 19 Jun 2005 22:29 |
Game: Five in, Five Out | DNQ | Formula One | 51 | 28 May 2003 14:23 |
Queensland To Host CART For Another Five Years. | Dov | ChampCar World Series | 10 | 14 Mar 2003 17:49 |