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11 Jan 2007, 22:48 (Ref:1812798) | #1 | ||
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"Proper" touring car
With WSR using the BMW and Vauxhall racing the Vectra in this year's BTCC a number of people have said it's good that "proper" touring cars are returning to the BTCC as opposed to hatchbacks and the like. For example, in the BTCC 2007 rumours thread:
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11 Jan 2007, 23:05 (Ref:1812822) | #2 | ||
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I think it's probably a bit of nostalgia... let's be honest, a 4/5 door car is more reminiscent of super touring days (that i don't remember) than a 2 door Astra for example.
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11 Jan 2007, 23:53 (Ref:1812845) | #3 | |||
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The only other types of touring cars worth watching are... DTM. 4 door saloons! V8 Supercars. 4 door saloons! |
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12 Jan 2007, 02:06 (Ref:1812901) | #4 | ||
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I think its because people have associations with hatchbacks being for support / feeder series', and that the bigger cars are the "main event".
Or maybe because smaller cars are generally seen as being more feminine in terms of marketing direction, and that the bigger, masculine cars appeal more to the typical male motorsport fan? |
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12 Jan 2007, 04:06 (Ref:1812945) | #5 | ||
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It could be because a hatchback isn't a 'touring car' as such. IIRC the term came from larger cars used for open road touring.
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12 Jan 2007, 06:13 (Ref:1812966) | #6 | ||
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The Capri and the Rover SD1 were hatchbacks.
Edited by the SD flippin' 1 owners' club! Last edited by Chris Y; 12 Jan 2007 at 08:41. |
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12 Jan 2007, 07:39 (Ref:1812989) | #7 | |
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PDS, DTM and V8's? A sleeping pill and a series where the judges hand out drive throughs like candy! BTCC, STCC and WTCC all the way for me.
Peter, I thought most people had forgot about those days? For me, a touring car is a four-door saloon, like the old ST days. |
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12 Jan 2007, 11:50 (Ref:1813163) | #8 | |||
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I think animal testing is a terrible idea: they all get nervous and give the wrong answers...! ...........Steven Fry |
12 Jan 2007, 07:46 (Ref:1812995) | #9 | ||
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Why forget what was the best touring car era, apart from the Group 2 days? BTW the Vectra and the Mondeo were ST hatchbacks.
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12 Jan 2007, 07:59 (Ref:1813004) | #10 | |
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I think it must be tied up with when you first started watching touring cars- personally, I go back to early/mid 80's Group A, so I've never got hung up on the whole 2/4 door saloon/coupe/hatch thing- if the regs say it's a touring car, then it's a touring car.
Jimmy- thanks for making me feel old.... |
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12 Jan 2007, 10:46 (Ref:1813110) | #11 | |||
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I don't know why they have chosen a hatchback Vectra for this season unless the saloon is to long? |
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12 Jan 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1813116) | #12 | ||
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Coincidentally, Opel ran an Astra GSi hatch supertourer in the Portuguese Touring Car Championship in 1993 and 1994. |
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12 Jan 2007, 11:41 (Ref:1813157) | #13 | |||
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The Mondeo started its racing life as a saloon! Andy Rouse introduced the Saloon in 1993 at Pembury. http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/ga...ouse_pembrey_w And the first driver to race a hatchback was? Anyone know??? |
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12 Jan 2007, 13:16 (Ref:1813200) | #14 | ||
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12 Jan 2007, 14:33 (Ref:1813251) | #15 | |||
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Spot on Redshoes! Charlie Cox returned to the BTCC after his massive Thruxton crash with a Hatchback version. http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/ga...28/95_cox_snet Whilst in Germany they were racing the Hatchback as 4x4 models! |
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13 Jan 2007, 17:39 (Ref:1814391) | #16 | ||
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Did Cox get that car from abroad? The works BTCC team didn't run a hatchback till 96 if I remember ? I think someone's earlier point that it depends when you started following Touring Cars, I was during the ST era and in the recent years I've been more drawn towards the likes of the MG ZS's and Lexus IS200's competing in the BTCC. But I can appreciate the championship has a vast history, and that is what everyone has got to remember, ie it was once won by a Mini! |
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12 Jan 2007, 12:07 (Ref:1813172) | #17 | ||
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I stand corrected re the Vectra but the Mondeo got its success as a hatchback.
As to the first driver I suspect it was Jon Dooley in the Alfa unless you are thinking of the Austin A40. |
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12 Jan 2007, 12:12 (Ref:1813174) | #18 | |||
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I think animal testing is a terrible idea: they all get nervous and give the wrong answers...! ...........Steven Fry |
12 Jan 2007, 12:19 (Ref:1813177) | #19 | ||
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Then again - the Volvo 850 STationwagon Super Touring car was bloody proper in its own way
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12 Jan 2007, 13:17 (Ref:1813201) | #20 | ||
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I've always thought it confusing that several manufacturers use touring as a model designator for the estate version
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12 Jan 2007, 17:07 (Ref:1813466) | #21 | ||
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Sorry POS I was thinking about vreal cars not the crap that ran as ST or even the current crap.
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12 Jan 2007, 19:07 (Ref:1813521) | #22 | ||
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IIRC one of the first Andy Rouse Mondeos was rear wheel drive. Did this ever race or was it used in only testing?
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13 Jan 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1813935) | #23 | |
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The rwd Mondeo only ever tested- by the time the car came to make it's race debut, they'd decided that fwd was the way to go.
Didn't Vauxhall try the Cavalier in rwd form at some point very early on? |
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13 Jan 2007, 16:45 (Ref:1814359) | #24 | ||
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Chris Hodgett's drove a second works Vauxhall (#70) in RWD form at Oulton Park in 1990, alongside John Cleland's (#50) FWD version.
They ran a second car for the rest of the year, driven by Hodgett's for a while, then later that likes of David Coulthard and Markus Oesterich, but i'm not sure if it was still in RWD trim, or whether they started running FWD cars. Cleland is quoted on the 1990 BTCC review as saying that he preferred the FWD car. In Australia Ross Palmer, who ran a Mondeo in the 1995 ASTC for the late Gregg Hansford and later Jeff Allam, tossed up building a RWD version of the Mondeo for the 1996 ASTC to try and match the BMW's. In the end it didn't happen, and Kevin Schwantz made a one-off appearance for the team at the season finale at Oran Park, with the car still in FWD trim |
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14 Jan 2007, 21:33 (Ref:1815226) | #25 | ||
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I tend to think of a Touring Car as something designed for taking the family on a long, comfortable holiday with all the luggage, and I grew up with Rover SD, Volvo 240turbo, BMW 635csi. Lower classes were for sporty cars and then shopping cars.
The current BTCC is really about shopping cars with MaxPower add-ons, and some variety from those is good. The new Beemer is a definite improvement in my opinion, although still not quite a tourer - you need to go up a model for that. Aussie V8s are definitely Touring Cars, since my definition is bigger, heavier and bags of power as opposed to our little buzz-boxes. DTM, while fantastic things are really sports cars having more in common with GT1. And hatchbacks? They were certainly around when I started watching. Barry Sheene in the Toyota, a bunch of Alfa GTVs, even Escort mk3s in large numbers. But they were never the main game. |
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