ALMS/Grand Am Fusion 2014

[hondafan37]

Ok this is the new thread all were asking.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...alizing-merger

[gucom]

PLEASE let them have sensible rules for the prototypes, preferably with a strong link to the ACO rule cars...

[rustyfan]

I think it'll be good, it'll bring the top teams from both sides together which in theory should make for a solid field.

I wonder what rules they'll use though. Surely the differences between the LMP and DP machinery are too great to allow for any sort of parity without restricting, I assume, the LMPs to death?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

I think it'll be good, it'll bring the top teams from both sides together which in theory should make for a solid field.

I wonder what rules they'll use though. Surely the differences between the LMP and DP machinery are too great to allow for any sort of parity without restricting, I assume, the LMPs to death?

DP to be P2?

P1 cars are current P1's with large restrictor P2's?

[gucom]

Maybe not the ideal topic for this question, but it's very well possible that this'll also affect the new merger series...

the SPEED article says GA is going to introduce a GX class in 2013, with alternative means of propulsion. Googling for GX, I find the Lotus Evora GX, which is basically a modified GT4 car, but also Mazda is offering a sky-active diesel engine, without a chassis... how would that work?!? does GX accept both GT's and prototypes?

another question: how do current LMP2's compare to DP's, speed-wise?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by gucom

Maybe not the ideal topic for this question, but it's very well possible that this'll also affect the new merger series...

the SPEED article says GA is going to introduce a GX class in 2013, with alternative means of propulsion. Googling for GX, I find the Lotus Evora GX, which is basically a modified GT4 car, but also Mazda is offering a sky-active diesel engine, without a chassis... how would that work?!? does GX accept both GT's and prototypes?

another question: how do current LMP2's compare to DP's, speed-wise?

Current DP's are slightly quicker than ALMS GT, iirc.

Now the time to give the DP's about 300 more horsepower and some more downforce. GTP 2.0

[daallo]

LMP2s are faster by a few seconds.

[Maelochs]

The DP motto: "We might not be cheaper, but at least we are slower ..."

I can't understand why this class never caught on.

[Articus]

Also lets not forget the glaring GT issue here. The current ACO GTE cars are as quick if not faster than the Daytona prototypes....And how do you explain why the ESM Ferrari GT2 is 10 seconds quicker than the AIM Autosport FXDD Ferrari..

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Articus

And how do you explain why the ESM Ferrari GT2 is 10 seconds quicker than the AIM Autosport FXDD Ferrari..

One is built to GT2 specs, the other is built to GT3 specs and then adjusted based to the ruleset and performance standards mandated by the sanctioning body.

That didn't seem too hard.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

One is built to GT2 specs, the other is built to GT3 specs and then adjusted based to the ruleset and performance standards mandated by the sanctioning body.

That didn't seem too hard.

Yes I know thats the answer. The problem is it looks a bit silly to have two Corvette's, two Ferrari's, two M3's, two Porsches running around in the same race all withthe same names. This is why the makes did not build cars for both GT1 and GT1. Why would Porsche build both GT1 and GT2, then Ferrari both classes let alone a 458 GT1 and 458 GT2. Then Aston both classes. It presents the same issue with GTE and GRand-GT

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Articus

Yes I know thats the answer. The problem is it looks a bit silly to have two Corvette's, two Ferrari's, two M3's, two Porsches running around in the same race all withthe same names. This is why the makes did not build cars for both GT1 and GT1. Why would Porsche build both GT1 and GT2, then Ferrari both classes let alone a 458 GT1 and 458 GT2. Then Aston both classes. It presents the same issue with GTE and GRand-GT

So, why does Porsche build a GTE spec car and a GTC spec one?

You would have had a *real* hard time following sports cars in the 90's.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Bon Débarras ACO!

[NightStalk3r]

Grand-Am running the show? NO THANKS!

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by gucom

PLEASE let them have sensible rules for the prototypes, preferably with a strong link to the ACO rule cars...

I am hoping so, as well. American control on the rules, but links to the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Make international racing STRONGER where the WEC has failed.

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Grand-Am running the show? NO THANKS!

I too have my worries over GA, more so of NASCAR. Especially with the improvements Grand-Am has been making to their management of late.

Chris

[DS"]

I don't like the thought of NASCAR running sportscar racing and thus having a large stake in road racing. They'll probably go after IndyCar next, so any competition to their holy Sprint Cup can be eliminated. It's just like when WWE bought WCW. This was a day when pro wrestling died, and the day where a major part of sportscar racing dies will probably come. But hey, we've still got WEC, right?

[MulsanneMike]

ALMS is dead. This allows Don to bow out and Grand-Am to take over. Grand-Am wins. Will be spun as some BS "merger", but the only ones who will believe that are the talking heads on the stage.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

ALMS is dead. This allows Don to bow out and Grand-Am to take over. Grand-Am wins. Will be spun as some BS "merger", but the only ones who will believe that are the talking heads on the stage.

Fair dues ..... dont know what to make of this at all ..... Im reeling !!!

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Fair dues ..... dont know what to make of this at all ..... Im reeling !!!

Agreed, it could be the death of real PROTOTYPE racing in America, or it could be a much needed infusion of money and common sense...

Chris

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Agreed, it could be the death of real PROTOTYPE racing in America, or it could be a much needed infusion of money and common sense...

Chris

It won't be. Grand-Am's singular purpose was to muddy the racing market outside of NASCAR, to effectively build a monopoly. And they have done that by (effectively) killing the ALMS and all their machinations in the CART/IRL wars.

[rustyfan]

I think it'll sort itself out somehow.

I mean, when Heath Ledger got the part as the Joker in the Dark Knight a lot of people ruled it out as a fiasco straight away, saying it wouldn't work and so forth and in the end it turned out to be bloody fantastic.

Point being: let's wait until we get some actual details on the 2014 plans before we decide to declare prototype racing in North America dead and buried.

[Ncrdbl1]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

ALMS is dead. This allows Don to bow out and Grand-Am to take over. Grand-Am wins. Will be spun as some BS "merger", but the only ones who will believe that are the talking heads on the stage.

So good to see at least one other person who gets it. The only card the ALMS has right now is their tie in to LeMans. I guess many do not realize that the NASCAR family has had a hand in road racing even before Grand-Am. It was Bill Sr who put up the money to create IMSA.

As for the future. In shear numbers the LMPs cannot touch the DP. In 2012 there were two full time cars in the LMP1, LMP2 and LMPC classes. Been a number of part time that helped fill the field but only 6 full time cars in all three combined. The DP saw 9 full time cars in 2012 and have 11 confirmed for 2013 with 2 more rumored.

The GT class is the strong point for ALMS but even there Grand-Am has more full time cars. 12 GA/GT compared to 11 full time ALMS GT. The GTC did raise the numbers some. Both Audi and Ferrari joined Grand-Am in 2012 with Aston Martin joining the GT class for 2013. It would be very easy for the GTC to move to Grand-Am with only minor changes. GT3 right now is the strongest GT class world wide right now. The Blancpain series is growing and it could open the door for other manufacturers to join Grand-Am. The series has spent the better part of the last two years in Europe visiting manufacturers and discussing rules changes to allow the FIA GT3 cars to run. The main modification would be thicker tubing in their roll cages, no anti lock brakes or traction control. Plus the addition of a front end splitter, and Grand-Am air inlets and rear wings. Right now two (Spa and Daytona) of the three top 24 hour events run GT3. The ACO added GT3 to the ELMS in an attempt to keep it afloat. Price wise i think the GT3 format would be more attractive than GTE. If LeMans would drop GTE AM and replace it with GT3 it would fix the majority of the problems in road racing.

[Canada ALMS fan]

How many DPs would legitimately exist without some sort of hand out from the series??? Just because the car count is higher doesn't mean those are the cars the fans are interested in, the amateur racers who provide the remainder of the funding series does not like them because they are less expensive to run than ACO cars. There have been more than 9 LMPs in every round of the ALMS though if you want to play the "our series has more cars than yours" agrument. You GA guys can preach to have the superior series and look down your noses all you want, if those are the cars we are left with the fans will leave in droves. All you have to do is look at attendance... It's time to stop picking sides and time to work together to make the unified series the best it can be. The reality is there are aspects of both series that can add value. As has been said a million times -The ALMS fans are just scared the series will get dumbed down, and we fully entitled to worry about that.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How many DPs would legitimately exist without some sort of hand out from the series??? Just because the car count is higher doesn't mean those are the cars the fans are interested in, the amateur racers who provide the remainder of the funding series does not like them because they are less expensive to run than ACO cars. There have been more than 9 LMPs in every round of the ALMS though if you want to play the "our series has more cars than yours" agrument. You GA guys can preach to have the superior series and look down your noses all you want, if those are the cars we are left with the fans will leave in droves. All you have to do is look at attendance... It's time to stop picking sides and time to work together to make the unified series the best it can be. The reality is there are aspects of both series that can add value. As has been said a million times -The ALMS fans are just scared the series will get dumbed down, and we fully entitled to worry about that.

Yep!



L.P.

[Livininthinair]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How many DPs would legitimately exist without some sort of hand out from the series??? Just because the car count is higher doesn't mean those are the cars the fans are interested in, the amateur racers who provide the remainder of the funding series does not like them because they are less expensive to run than ACO cars. There have been more than 9 LMPs in every round of the ALMS though if you want to play the "our series has more cars than yours" agrument. You GA guys can preach to have the superior series and look down your noses all you want, if those are the cars we are left with the fans will leave in droves. All you have to do is look at attendance... It's time to stop picking sides and time to work together to make the unified series the best it can be. The reality is there are aspects of both series that can add value. As has been said a million times -The ALMS fans are just scared the series will get dumbed down, and we fully entitled to worry about that.

Perfectly stated - I think you have hit on something all of us feel/fear. When this was first announced I was very upset and ractionary thinking the sky was indeed falling. Well, we are now looking at a (merged) series and everyone involved must work together to make it a product the fans will find interesting and the teams can be proud of. In my opinion this includes Prototype and GT cars that have an ACO link not just GTE...


The thought of changing the ACO GTE/GT2 formula to GT3 would not get us where we are wanting to go (in my opinion), GTE is very near perfect as is. Adding GT3 as an under class to GTE/GT2 would allow teams to compete without having the budget of Corvette racing ect. + some teams don't have the budget or interest in going to LeMans, so let them run in GT3 and keep GT2/GTE for the teams that want the ACO connection.

In addition to the comment about attendance - almost every Grand Am race I watch (on tv, have not been in person - only to ALMS races in person) it seems like there is nobody there.